'Downgrade' from CW to CE to Amman
Jun 20, 2018, 9:32 am
#31
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: EDI
Programs: BD*G
Posts: 136
United - in F - the 777 I was booked in was supposed to be the new first class product but was switched at the last minute to some ancient 777 which still had F but it was a very poor version (tape based IFE). Again, upon landing there was an email offering up miles or vouchers.
Jun 20, 2018, 9:43 am
#32
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: BA GGL, A3*G, Mucci de l'expertise des Apps
Posts: 3,363
United - In E+ the IFE was broken in the section I was in - we all got comped free drinks for the whole flight (LHR-SFO) and upon landing I had an email to pick either some miles or some vouchers for future travel.
United - in F - the 777 I was booked in was supposed to be the new first class product but was switched at the last minute to some ancient 777 which still had F but it was a very poor version (tape based IFE). Again, upon landing there was an email offering up miles or vouchers.
United - in F - the 777 I was booked in was supposed to be the new first class product but was switched at the last minute to some ancient 777 which still had F but it was a very poor version (tape based IFE). Again, upon landing there was an email offering up miles or vouchers.
Jun 20, 2018, 9:44 am
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LCY
Programs: Mucci des Ancients Matelots
Posts: 769
Well this is one of those days you remember why you fly BA. I contacted them over the phone and spoke to a very nice young man who spent some time really looking into the issue and rebooked me onto the Royal Jordanian 787 in J. Pretty good result in my view, not sure of the seat situation yet as it appears to have gone under airport control and I can't see seats until check-in opens in 20 mins but even if we're not together I'm sure we'll survive.
Well done BA (staff)!
Well done BA (staff)!
Jun 20, 2018, 9:54 am
#35
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,527
Not sure why anyone would actively choose BA club world over RJ 787 in the first place. It simply is not worth flying BA Cramp World today unless you do not have a decent alternative.
Jun 20, 2018, 9:55 am
#36
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: BA GGL, A3*G, Mucci de l'expertise des Apps
Posts: 3,363
Well this is one of those days you remember why you fly BA. I contacted them over the phone and spoke to a very nice young man who spent some time really looking into the issue and rebooked me onto the Royal Jordanian 787 in J. Pretty good result in my view, not sure of the seat situation yet as it appears to have gone under airport control and I can't see seats until check-in opens in 20 mins but even if we're not together I'm sure we'll survive.
Well done BA (staff)!
Well done BA (staff)!
Jun 20, 2018, 9:56 am
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
We're not talking about a level of quality, we're talking about a different product.
If I do a Tesco online shop and they're out of Tesco Finest Prosciutto and give me Bernard Matthews turkey ham instead, Tesco automatically refunds the difference.
If I order in a restaurant and the waiter comes back to the table and says 'sorry, we're out of steak' and I order a burger instead, I would expect to pay for the burger and not the steak.
If I send a mate to the shop with Ł20 for a bottle of wine and he comes back with a bottle of Blue Nun as that's all they had, I'd expect change.
If I do a Tesco online shop and they're out of Tesco Finest Prosciutto and give me Bernard Matthews turkey ham instead, Tesco automatically refunds the difference.
If I order in a restaurant and the waiter comes back to the table and says 'sorry, we're out of steak' and I order a burger instead, I would expect to pay for the burger and not the steak.
If I send a mate to the shop with Ł20 for a bottle of wine and he comes back with a bottle of Blue Nun as that's all they had, I'd expect change.
Jun 20, 2018, 11:06 am
#38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,343
Jun 20, 2018, 11:25 am
#39
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Perth WA/ UK
Programs: BA Gold, Priority Club Gold, Accor Silver, Virgin Australia Gold
Posts: 1,749
Likewise, I got a very stroppy CSD on AA on a similar situation with AA who was rather whimpish. Had no customer interactive skills nor could deal with me while i complained. When I eventually checked my own AA account, email vents I received 20000 AA points . BA do market differently CW and CE.
Last edited by nivsy; Jun 20, 2018 at 1:33 pm
Jun 20, 2018, 12:51 pm
#40
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
Good outcome for OP ^^^.
Leaving aside the seat, would rest of service have been CW or would that be CE as well?
Jun 20, 2018, 12:56 pm
#41
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Great outcome for OP, but if I think back to trips to ARN, FRA, or MAD, I’ve often benefited from a CW seat... I think FTers have an advantage here!
Jun 20, 2018, 2:13 pm
#42
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
Good outcome for the OP
Jun 20, 2018, 2:21 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,046
Here is some evidence that CW IS a different product to CE on LHR<>AMM. It comes from pricing.
First of all I tried pricing LHR-AMM-LHR on ba.com and got:
18JUL 1605 LHR AMM 2320 I
25JUL 0800 AMM LHR 1140 I
FARE = GBP 1,023, TAX = GBP 340.71, TOTAL = GBP 1,363.71
Note that GBP 1,023 is the fare with basis INNC04S7 currently filed and visible in Expert Flyer
Then I tried pricing LHR-LCA-LHR on ba.com and got:
18JUL 0715 LHR LCA 1350 D
25JUL 1440 LCA LHR 1735 I
FARE = GBP 714, TAX = GBP 66.50, TOTAL = GBP 780.50
Note that GBP 714 combines using half-return logic the fares with basis DHV3R (GBP 873) and IHM0V2R (GBP 555) currently filed and visible in Expert Flyer
Half return logic in this case means that you take 50% of the D fare and 50% of the I fare and add them together to correctly price a ticket using more than one inventory class
So far so good...
Now here is the juicy bit...
If I price LHR-AMM/LCA-LHR on ba.com I get:
18JUL 1605 LHR AMM 2320 C
25JUL 1440 LCA LHR 1735 I
FARE = GBP 2,175, TAX = GBP 306.41, TOTAL = GBP 2,481.41
Now Expert Flyer shows the following filed fares valid for booking into fare bucket C on LHR<>AMM:
CIF (YY, OW) = GBP 2,561
CNNC0S5 (BA, RT) = GBP 2,794
CIF (YY, RT) = GBP 3,659
It also shows the following filed fares valid for booking into fare bucket I on LHR<>LCA and LCA<>LHR:
IV2W (point of origin Cyprus) = GBP 315
IHV2K (point of origin UK) = GBP 361
IHM0V2R (point of origin UK) = GBP 555
IHMOV2H (point of origin Cyprus) = GBP 564
I note with interest that you cannot combine any of the C fares with any of the I fares to construct the fare quoted. Which means that something else must be happening behind the scenes and hence BA must be using some technique to artificially inflate the fares because the LHR<>AMM product is deemed superior to the LHR<>LCA product.
My best guess would be that this is a case of the so-called Higher Intermediate Point (HIP). Or at least a certain species marrying HIP and inventory control somehow. One of the reasons that airlines use HIP is to ensure that passengers do not get to experience longhaul premium at less than the one-way fare by combining it with a second half of the trip from somewhere with shorthaul premium.
First of all I tried pricing LHR-AMM-LHR on ba.com and got:
18JUL 1605 LHR AMM 2320 I
25JUL 0800 AMM LHR 1140 I
FARE = GBP 1,023, TAX = GBP 340.71, TOTAL = GBP 1,363.71
Note that GBP 1,023 is the fare with basis INNC04S7 currently filed and visible in Expert Flyer
Then I tried pricing LHR-LCA-LHR on ba.com and got:
18JUL 0715 LHR LCA 1350 D
25JUL 1440 LCA LHR 1735 I
FARE = GBP 714, TAX = GBP 66.50, TOTAL = GBP 780.50
Note that GBP 714 combines using half-return logic the fares with basis DHV3R (GBP 873) and IHM0V2R (GBP 555) currently filed and visible in Expert Flyer
Half return logic in this case means that you take 50% of the D fare and 50% of the I fare and add them together to correctly price a ticket using more than one inventory class
So far so good...
Now here is the juicy bit...
If I price LHR-AMM/LCA-LHR on ba.com I get:
18JUL 1605 LHR AMM 2320 C
25JUL 1440 LCA LHR 1735 I
FARE = GBP 2,175, TAX = GBP 306.41, TOTAL = GBP 2,481.41
Now Expert Flyer shows the following filed fares valid for booking into fare bucket C on LHR<>AMM:
CIF (YY, OW) = GBP 2,561
CNNC0S5 (BA, RT) = GBP 2,794
CIF (YY, RT) = GBP 3,659
It also shows the following filed fares valid for booking into fare bucket I on LHR<>LCA and LCA<>LHR:
IV2W (point of origin Cyprus) = GBP 315
IHV2K (point of origin UK) = GBP 361
IHM0V2R (point of origin UK) = GBP 555
IHMOV2H (point of origin Cyprus) = GBP 564
I note with interest that you cannot combine any of the C fares with any of the I fares to construct the fare quoted. Which means that something else must be happening behind the scenes and hence BA must be using some technique to artificially inflate the fares because the LHR<>AMM product is deemed superior to the LHR<>LCA product.
My best guess would be that this is a case of the so-called Higher Intermediate Point (HIP). Or at least a certain species marrying HIP and inventory control somehow. One of the reasons that airlines use HIP is to ensure that passengers do not get to experience longhaul premium at less than the one-way fare by combining it with a second half of the trip from somewhere with shorthaul premium.
Jun 20, 2018, 3:03 pm
#44
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,549
My best guess would be that this is a case of the so-called Higher Intermediate Point (HIP). Or at least a certain species marrying HIP and inventory control somehow. One of the reasons that airlines use HIP is to ensure that passengers do not get to experience longhaul premium at less than the one-way fare by combining it with a second half of the trip from somewhere with shorthaul premium.
HIP doesn't impact routing - it only comes into play where a stopover occurs. You can transit without worrying about HIP/HIF
The YY CIF fare can be used to go LHR-AMM-LCA as long as the 5% supplement for the MPM being exceeded by 5% is paid and as long as there are YY participating airlines for each of those sectors
GBP1350 plus GBP67.50 plus taxes for LHR-AMM-LCA would be valid as long as no stopover
Put a stopover in at AMM then then HIP rule would apply and the fare would increase to GBP2561
Jun 20, 2018, 3:29 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,626
I was on an ex EU from IST - PER via AUH with EY a year or so ago, I booked BA CE to get to IST, which was originally a 767, but got upgraded to mid haul 321. From IST to AUH I was originally on a 787 in J, which was downgraded to a 321. I guess it's a case of some you win, some you loose.