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Two bad experiences in Club Europe, FRA-LHR & LHR-MAD

Two bad experiences in Club Europe, FRA-LHR & LHR-MAD

Old Jun 12, 2018, 1:23 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by fly747first
But I do know, because up until the day before the flight, the Economy rates were quite low and the Club rates weren't that high, so this tells me they overbooked with many low fare pax. If it were the case that they had sold many of the higher fares, then they would have closed all buckets and only left "Y" but again, this wasn't the case.

However, in theory, it is entirely possible that someone booking full-fare Y at the last minute is paying significantly more than someone who got a low Business Class fare that had 50-60 day advance purchase requirement.
the seats don't necessarily price high just because it is close to departure. Sometimes a passenger or their employer will pick a higher fare because of its flexibility. Thus someone in Y could have paid substantially more than someone in J and could have purchased the ticket before the person in J too. Pricing isn't all about time of purchase.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 1:42 pm
  #32  
 
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Its so strange reading these comments and whilst I respect every one of them I cant relate - did MAD twice in last 2 weeks on 777 in CE - outstanding, seamless delivery each time (full cabin inc F) and both me and my partner commented on both occasions how good the food quality was. Must have just lucked out with good crews - they were totally friendly , chatty and engaging throughout - had at least 3 drink top ups during dinner. Just shows a great crew are totally capable of delivery this service without complaint !

The last few CE flights Ive had have been similar - just off an ATH 767 in CE - again - totally brilliant , engaging crew - im noticing such a difference in crew engagement in last 6 months - maybe its just luck but its always what brings me back!
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 1:48 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by itsmeitisss
the seats don't necessarily price high just because it is close to departure. Sometimes a passenger or their employer will pick a higher fare because of its flexibility. Thus someone in Y could have paid substantially more than someone in J and could have purchased the ticket before the person in J too. Pricing isn't all about time of purchase.
I don't think you are getting it... no one is doubting that someone in Y in theory could pay more than someone in J. However, if the day before the flight all the lower buckets are open, it shows the airline is desperate to get more revenue vs. only the higher buckets being available if the airline could tell demand was strong and thus they could get away with only selling the higher seats. Moreover, from a strict RM perspective, even if the lower buckets are left open by the inventory/yield analyst, if the pricing analyst has those lower buckets with strict advance purchase restrictions, then even if they are open, the lower fares associated with those buckets won't be displayed, so again, in my case, the fact that there were low fares available 24 hours before the flight tells me that this was an intentional tactical action because BA's analysts felt that without such low fares, they wouldn't be able to generate enough demand to ultimately fill the flight, though I do think they kinda did an overkill by allowing such massive overbooking with primarily low fares.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 5:09 pm
  #34  
 
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You still don't know how much other people paid. Just because you did a search and found low prices does not mean that everyone else paid those lower prices - or did you go to each passenger and ask them what they paid? You are also still ignoring the fact that people don't buy seats, they buy a permit to travel in effect. Different prices have different conditions. It is still feasible that someone may have purchased fully flexible tickets even though there were cheaper buckets available. A client of mine did the same in purchasing my tickets to VIE the other week. CE return around the 1k mark. I know that there were tickets available quite a lot cheaper but against my advice the client insisted on paying full flex J.

You're so determined to find fault that you aren't seeing the wood for the trees.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 6:07 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by fly747first
I don't think you are getting it... no one is doubting that someone in Y in theory could pay more than someone in J.
i completely get what youre saying and you may well be right in this example but fare revenue is not as straight as it seems, especially when you have a long haul aircraft operating a short haul route, there is cargo revenue and load at play here too. But ultimately I have seen examples where by economy is cheap when released then increases as fares sell out but then 24-48 hrs before departure fares can be cheap again. Were not going to answer or even guess whats going on here or in any flight. Its the beauty and quite sensitive market of airfare selling. So I or another poster may not get it but I pretty sure you dont either with all due respect and thats purely because these companies dont want us to get it.

Ultimately if you want to be somewhere at a certain time and place youll pay what is available at the time/period when you are looking to book. If 3 months later or maybe earlier or 24hrs before departure the price has increased or decreased is neither here nor there. Airlines know this. Majority passengers pay what they want at the time they want it.


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Old Jun 12, 2018, 8:34 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by itsmeitisss
You still don't know how much other people paid. Just because you did a search and found low prices does not mean that everyone else paid those lower prices - or did you go to each passenger and ask them what they paid? You are also still ignoring the fact that people don't buy seats, they buy a permit to travel in effect. Different prices have different conditions. It is still feasible that someone may have purchased fully flexible tickets even though there were cheaper buckets available. A client of mine did the same in purchasing my tickets to VIE the other week. CE return around the 1k mark. I know that there were tickets available quite a lot cheaper but against my advice the client insisted on paying full flex J.

You're so determined to find fault that you aren't seeing the wood for the trees.
And you are still missing the point, for I never said every passenger on my flight had paid a low fare. Obviously, for a variety of reasons, some do need to pay for flexible tickets and it will be quite sad if BA didn't manage to get any full-fare bookings on a 200+ pax aircraft.

However, as someone who has won many awards in Revenue Management, I'm not going to overlook BA's deficiencies. It would be one thing if the 777 flight only happened once in a while but this particular 777 flight doing a MAD turn has been the case for many months now giving BA plenty of data to analyze. From a pure Revenue Management perspective, the best analysts and managers would know that leaving the lowest buckets open on a flight that is so massively overbooked just isn't smart. By this point, if you are going to overbook, then it should be at Y so you get as much full-fare revenue as you can which will easily offset any potential compensation you have to do to move a low-fare pax to another flight.
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 1:14 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by fly747first
...as someone who has won many awards in Revenue Management
Yup, i looked it up - there really are awards for revenue managers
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 2:20 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Yup, i looked it up - there really are awards for revenue managers
The Getting Customers to Cough-up Cup? The Yield Shield?
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 3:25 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by fly747first
And you are still missing the point, for I never said every passenger on my flight had paid a low fare. Obviously, for a variety of reasons, some do need to pay for flexible tickets and it will be quite sad if BA didn't manage to get any full-fare bookings on a 200+ pax aircraft.

However, as someone who has won many awards in Revenue Management, I'm not going to overlook BA's deficiencies. It would be one thing if the 777 flight only happened once in a while but this particular 777 flight doing a MAD turn has been the case for many months now giving BA plenty of data to analyze. From a pure Revenue Management perspective, the best analysts and managers would know that leaving the lowest buckets open on a flight that is so massively overbooked just isn't smart. By this point, if you are going to overbook, then it should be at Y so you get as much full-fare revenue as you can which will easily offset any potential compensation you have to do to move a low-fare pax to another flight.

And as an award winning revenue management consultant, you are saying that actual fares aren't relevant? Didn't they manage this via op-ups?
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 3:30 am
  #40  
 
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Just because the 777 is being used on MAD does in no way mean you will get longhaul perks (Pillow, blanket etc). This is Club Europe and just happens to be on a long haul aircraft. If you would have taken one of the other 6/7 other flights on an A320/321 this will be standard CE cabin. I think you've slightly missed the point on this whole 777 thing. As for the meal, yeah may not have been presented in the best way but MAD I believe are serving a substantial full meal compared to the rest of CE routes. All sounds good to me. My last flight LHR-MAD on 787-9 whilst only getting a panini I totally enjoyed being in CW cabin on this short hop. No IFE due to some European law but a couple of G&T's & Daily Mail meant a very nice way to move to MAD.

As for comparing it to LX / OS ?? Are you comparing it long haul ? Flying BA CW long haul would absolutely stand up with new bedding, pillows and catering.
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 4:07 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by chris87


Without wading into a debate about the merits of CE (except to note that I am generally a fan), Ive never had IFE on any of the 777 MAD flights. I thought there were licensing issues which meant that they cant turn it on for intra-Europe flights?
That was my understanding too.

However flat bed and a decent area in which to work are definitely nice to have imho. Once the 767 goes I may well end up changing my travel patterns a tad and no longer doing the dawn run.

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
They recently went to Long meal bands as a semi trial and I suspect it is challenging on some flights if there are a lot of CE passengers in CW seats and 100 minute operating time.
.
CSD / M (can't remember what it is on heritage - I'm rubbish with these things) told me precisely that last week - she said she had 68 J at one point and described it as 'a bit of a challenge. And I presume including FLUB on a triple it's a similar kind of number?

Last edited by Prospero; Jun 13, 2018 at 1:08 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 5:26 am
  #42  
 
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I'd suggest flying the Latam tag on for FRA-MAD and vv. Long haul configured, flat bed, decent meal (and pisco sour!) and IFE working. And Oneworld so you'll get your avios and some tier points.

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Old Jun 13, 2018, 7:09 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by fly747first
From a pure Revenue Management perspective, the best analysts and managers would know that leaving the lowest buckets open on a flight that is so massively overbooked just isn't smart.
The flight could have been full for other reasons.
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 8:37 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Yup, i looked it up - there really are awards for revenue managers
You clearly have zero knowledge on this. Maybe at airlines that don't take any pride in their work like BA there aren't, but even cruise lines and hotels issue Excellence in Revenue Management awards every quarter. Some companies even name specific Revenue Management awards in honor of former staff who served that particular company for many years and implemented a lot of new RM tools (no, I don't have an award named after me, but I'm just explaining for reference since you seem to be lost in space on such matter).

Originally Posted by itsmeitisss
And as an award winning revenue management consultant, you are saying that actual fares aren't relevant? Didn't they manage this via op-ups?
When did I say that fares aren't relevant? In my previous comment I explicitly stated that on a flight so overbooked they should have only left the inventory open in Y, as Y is the highest fare bucket across the board for economy. Obviously revenue is achieved through the fares each pax pays and each booking class is associated with a particular fare, which may change over time especially in the lower buckets.

Originally Posted by signol
I'd suggest flying the Latam tag on for FRA-MAD and vv. Long haul configured, flat bed, decent meal (and pisco sour!) and IFE working. And Oneworld so you'll get your avios and some tier points.

signol
Yes, and ironically, full blankets and pillows wrapped in a nice package (love the quality of the blankets up front!). haha

I have done this many times and it always amazes me how dirt cheap LATAM prices their Business Class FRA-MAD.

However, LATAM doesn't fly routes such as FRA-LHR so sometimes I have no choice but to fly BA.

Last edited by Prospero; Jun 13, 2018 at 1:07 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 8:47 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by fly747first
You clearly have zero knowledge on this. Maybe at airlines that don't take any pride in their work like BA there aren't, but even cruise lines and hotels issue Excellence in Revenue Management awards every quarter. Some companies even name specific Revenue Management awards in honor of former staff who served that particular company for many years and implemented a lot of new RM tools (no, I don't have an award named after me, but I'm just explaining for reference since you seem to be lost in space on such matter).
Do you have to be up your own **** to win them too or are they judged purely on revenue management ability?
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