Mistake fare LHR - TLV [Tickets now cancelled by BA]
#197
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
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Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only £30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only £396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
#200
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only £30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only £396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
#201
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: EL AL Matmid, BA Executive Club GfL, GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,085
Well it may not be such a small sum for some. If someone booked their family, that could easily be parents and 4 children. If they then went ahead and booked a hotel, saving money by taking a non refundable option, their costs could be significant. Add to that the fact that many people may only have been able to afford the trip because the fare was so low and that for them it may be quite a significant expense.
#202
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAGGL, A3G, Accor Gold, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, LHW Sterling
Posts: 1,308
Well it may not be such a small sum for some. If someone booked their family, that could easily be parents and 4 children. If they then went ahead and booked a hotel, saving money by taking a non refundable option, their costs could be significant. Add to that the fact that many people may only have been able to afford the trip because the fare was so low and that for them it may be quite a significant expense.
I think anyone knowingly booking this fare (as opposed to coming across it by accident) would have been very unwise to immediately book non-refundable hotels, and I suspect anyone with a longer than a few weeks lead wouldn't have. I certainly didn't.
My point was more that the differential between the fare and the "normal" fare was small relative to other airline mistake fares (in fact so slight I'm not even sure now it fits very well into this category - despite what the airline say), and in round sums was a relatively modest amount.
If I understand the voucher offer correctly (I haven't seen the terms yet and don't know if it's per a booking or passenger - I assume the latter), that in most cases the voucher should cover the shortfall more or less.
#203
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
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Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only £30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only £396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
I'd not like to be their legal team right now.
I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
if ba want to cancel, I take their word for it that this was a mistake ie not the price at which they intended to sell, but to call it a ‘manifest’ error is outright dishonest and a distortion of an important legal protection which was certainly not designed for cases like this.
Last edited by orbitmic; Jun 18, 2018 at 1:45 am
#204
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Programs: Junior Jet Club, Nando's Card 1 Red Chilli, Tesco Clubcard, BAEC Gold, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 520
I suspect that if you could provide proof that you had paid for other things around this booking, that you were genuine in your belief that it was a cheap fare as opposed to an error fare, you could initially argue with BA, suggesting that they honour it. If they still didn't, a strongly worded letter with a threat of legal action might sway them. You may want to mention that any settlement is between you and them, and it will not be published (simply to prevent a deluge of other claims). You might be successful.
#205
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Posts: 63,735
if ba want to cancel, I take their word for it that this was a mistake ie not the price at which they intended to sell, but to call it a ‘manifest’ error is outright dishonest and a distortion of an important legal protection which was certainly not designed for cases like this.
#206
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Most airline consider TLV short haul and even with BA, the pricing is somewhat close to longer shorthaul as long as you buy returns (though not offering cheap one ways). To this day, you can still buy some return LHR-TLV on BA for £261 return on some OTAs without any sale being on, and for £290 on the BA website itself (and as discussed by others, a bit lower than that is not unknown, and some other prices which BA have recognised are not error fares have recently been introduced that were far lower than anything advertised in the recent past). To go back to the specific LHR-TLV fares, I mentioned current pricings of £182 on A3 and as low as £105 on some lowcost, I could also mention that earlier this year, LX offered returns to TLV in long haul J from various European origins (though not London) for £350, including flying over the peak Passover period. As others mentioned, it is also not rare for Omega and a few others to offer drastically cheaper rates on BA tickets than the BA website itself. I remember buying a LCY-DUB at £31 through them on a day when BA wanted over £100 and more modest but substantial savings are frequent.
I think that you are exactly right that BA are using that £100 to encourage people to accept the cancellation without making any noise and that may well do the trick for them. However, the notion that this was a "manifest error" simply doesn't hold water and whilst this is not my place to say, in my opinion, a case like this one cannot credibly be what the legislator had in mind when designing a protection for sellers in case of manifest error. A large screen TV which shows at £9.99 instead of £999 yes, even a plane ticket on a UK website that would be advertised at $199 whilst it would be intended at £199 arguably, but this with a price that largely replicates the lower end of existing market price ranges? I'd be extremely surprised.
#208
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Programs: Junior Jet Club, Nando's Card 1 Red Chilli, Tesco Clubcard, BAEC Gold, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 520
I am actually happy with the outcome if I get £100. As I've said that on an open forum, after my flight details and seat allocation were published, I am not able to take this further with BA, which I will not. Having said that, I feel there is a legal grey area that airlines have hidden behind too often, and there really needs to be clarification.
Whether or not you thought it was a mistake fare when you bought it, is something that would need to be proven by BA's legal team, and as it's a "state of mind", it would be extremely difficult. The title having mistake in it, and 204 uses of the word, suggests that the OP thought it might be a mistake fare and others are agreeing that it might. Further personal investigation, by comparing it with other similar fares for example, could have lead the reader to suppose differently, and that's the crucial point.
What is concerning is that all the contract elements are satisfied, there was confirmation from all contract parties and an independent party (flight details appeared on AMADEUS, which is not BA, the purchaser or the OTA owned). There has to be in law a point where the purchase part of a contract can be called satisfied, but it seems that this is not the case for airline tickets. It's fair to assume that most people would have booked the rest of their holiday well before the 2 week deadline, and rightly so.
Error fares are common. I've benefited from many of them, and if fact I have a £66 premium economy flight next month that should have cost me £700. I've left it 10 days, they have corrected the prices and not cancelled it. So now I'm booking hotels and other flights around it. Is 10 days a reasonable time to wait? That's my issue here, who decides how long after a flight has been booked and ticketed that it can be reversed? Make no mistake, these error fares can be dealt with before they happen, if the fare component falls below the estimated cost per head to the airline, then it should not be released to the OTA. Hell, I could code that into anything in about an hour. And that's another issue, why should the customer have to be a safety net for a booking system that is fundamentally flawed?
Whether or not you thought it was a mistake fare when you bought it, is something that would need to be proven by BA's legal team, and as it's a "state of mind", it would be extremely difficult. The title having mistake in it, and 204 uses of the word, suggests that the OP thought it might be a mistake fare and others are agreeing that it might. Further personal investigation, by comparing it with other similar fares for example, could have lead the reader to suppose differently, and that's the crucial point.
What is concerning is that all the contract elements are satisfied, there was confirmation from all contract parties and an independent party (flight details appeared on AMADEUS, which is not BA, the purchaser or the OTA owned). There has to be in law a point where the purchase part of a contract can be called satisfied, but it seems that this is not the case for airline tickets. It's fair to assume that most people would have booked the rest of their holiday well before the 2 week deadline, and rightly so.
Error fares are common. I've benefited from many of them, and if fact I have a £66 premium economy flight next month that should have cost me £700. I've left it 10 days, they have corrected the prices and not cancelled it. So now I'm booking hotels and other flights around it. Is 10 days a reasonable time to wait? That's my issue here, who decides how long after a flight has been booked and ticketed that it can be reversed? Make no mistake, these error fares can be dealt with before they happen, if the fare component falls below the estimated cost per head to the airline, then it should not be released to the OTA. Hell, I could code that into anything in about an hour. And that's another issue, why should the customer have to be a safety net for a booking system that is fundamentally flawed?
#209
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: BA
Posts: 5
I have just called the travel agent i booked the ticket from, and have been told that it will take up to 21 days for a refund!!! and no compensation.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.
#210
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
I have just called the travel agent i booked the ticket from, and have been told that it will take up to 21 days for a refund!!! and no compensation.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.