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Mistake fare LHR - TLV [Tickets now cancelled by BA]

Mistake fare LHR - TLV [Tickets now cancelled by BA]

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Old Jun 17, 18, 2:57 pm
  #196  
 
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I've now had a written confirmation from Omega that they will be refunding me, and a note to say that BA will provide a 100 pound per person voucher as compensation.
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Old Jun 17, 18, 11:24 pm
  #197  
 
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Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only 30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only 396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.

I'd not like to be their legal team right now.

I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
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Old Jun 17, 18, 11:32 pm
  #198  
 
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You're probably right, but for such a small sum I'd be astonished if anyone actually considered pursuing this.
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Old Jun 17, 18, 11:34 pm
  #199  
 
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Yeah. 100 of free flying...
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:09 am
  #200  
 
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Originally Posted by flyuk View Post
Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only 30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only 396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.

I'd not like to be their legal team right now.

I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
Yeah, I agree - handing out these vouchers does suggest they think they're on shaky ground. Is it possible to push this to the small claims court though? I'm not looking for an amount of money, I want specific performance of the contract. Is there any way of doing that cheaply? I think MCOL needs a "money claim"...
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:18 am
  #201  
 
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Originally Posted by Woodbinerich View Post
You're probably right, but for such a small sum I'd be astonished if anyone actually considered pursuing this.
Well it may not be such a small sum for some. If someone booked their family, that could easily be parents and 4 children. If they then went ahead and booked a hotel, saving money by taking a non refundable option, their costs could be significant. Add to that the fact that many people may only have been able to afford the trip because the fare was so low and that for them it may be quite a significant expense.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:27 am
  #202  
 
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Originally Posted by mikebg View Post
Well it may not be such a small sum for some. If someone booked their family, that could easily be parents and 4 children. If they then went ahead and booked a hotel, saving money by taking a non refundable option, their costs could be significant. Add to that the fact that many people may only have been able to afford the trip because the fare was so low and that for them it may be quite a significant expense.
I'm not belittling anything or anyone here, and I do appreciate there might be consequential losses, which would take things to a different level.
I think anyone knowingly booking this fare (as opposed to coming across it by accident) would have been very unwise to immediately book non-refundable hotels, and I suspect anyone with a longer than a few weeks lead wouldn't have. I certainly didn't.
My point was more that the differential between the fare and the "normal" fare was small relative to other airline mistake fares (in fact so slight I'm not even sure now it fits very well into this category - despite what the airline say), and in round sums was a relatively modest amount.
If I understand the voucher offer correctly (I haven't seen the terms yet and don't know if it's per a booking or passenger - I assume the latter), that in most cases the voucher should cover the shortfall more or less.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:35 am
  #203  
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Originally Posted by flyuk View Post
Seeing how quickly and generously they have refunded and rewarded, I get the feeling that BA are not that sure they could win a challenge in court and are hedging their bets. There are fares available for some of the dates for only 30 more on competitors (Wizz), and BA flights for only 396. Seeing that there are all the parts of a valid contract, and this is not obviously a mistake, if it were to be challenged and beaten in court it would cost a lot more to honour, especially now they are selectively allowing people to fly them.

I'd not like to be their legal team right now.

I'll be interested to see what the voucher paperwork says, I'd not be surprised if it contained legally acceptable wording stating that acceptance is full and final settlement.
Not even 30 more: for some dates, low cost tickets will cost you a total of 105 return, ie 90 less than the price of those tickets, and full service airline tickets like Aegean go for 182 so again cheaper than this. The A3 has a stop but in economy, nonstop are not always more expensive, indeed, during their sales (advertised or not) ba are often cheaper than all other full service airlines (nonstop or connecting) on many routes.

if ba want to cancel, I take their word for it that this was a mistake ie not the price at which they intended to sell, but to call it a ‘manifest’ error is outright dishonest and a distortion of an important legal protection which was certainly not designed for cases like this.

Last edited by orbitmic; Jun 18, 18 at 1:45 am
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:37 am
  #204  
 
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I suspect that if you could provide proof that you had paid for other things around this booking, that you were genuine in your belief that it was a cheap fare as opposed to an error fare, you could initially argue with BA, suggesting that they honour it. If they still didn't, a strongly worded letter with a threat of legal action might sway them. You may want to mention that any settlement is between you and them, and it will not be published (simply to prevent a deluge of other claims). You might be successful.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 1:48 am
  #205  
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
if ba want to cancel, I take their word for it that this was a mistake ie not the price at which they intended to sell, but to call it a ‘manifest’ error is outright dishonest and a distortion of an important legal protection which was certainly not designed for cases like this.
It was manifest to those involved with this thread, the word "mistake" went in to the very title of this thread, and that was before it transpired it was placed in fare bucket B (the second most expensive). There are 204 uses of the word "mistake" in this thread. Companies are allowed to make mistakes (E&OE) so long as they do the right thing to rectify the error. It's interesting that at least some people appear to be now flying on these fares since clearly there is a difference to someone travelling in the next 2 weeks - both legally and in terms of personal circumstances - than those lovely forumites with their plans for 2019.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 2:06 am
  #206  
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Originally Posted by flyuk View Post
that you were genuine in your belief that it was a cheap fare as opposed to an error fare,
Conceptually and objectively, how can you prove that though? Moreover, this would be a complete reversal of proof: it is really for whoever accuses someone else of having acted with dishonest intention to bring the proof that they did. Sure, if you bought 20 of them that suggests you might have felt something was wrong, but even the op in this thread raises the question of whether it might be a mistake fare with a question mark suggesting that he/she thought that this was a very good fare but also not an inconceivable one.

Most airline consider TLV short haul and even with BA, the pricing is somewhat close to longer shorthaul as long as you buy returns (though not offering cheap one ways). To this day, you can still buy some return LHR-TLV on BA for 261 return on some OTAs without any sale being on, and for 290 on the BA website itself (and as discussed by others, a bit lower than that is not unknown, and some other prices which BA have recognised are not error fares have recently been introduced that were far lower than anything advertised in the recent past). To go back to the specific LHR-TLV fares, I mentioned current pricings of 182 on A3 and as low as 105 on some lowcost, I could also mention that earlier this year, LX offered returns to TLV in long haul J from various European origins (though not London) for 350, including flying over the peak Passover period. As others mentioned, it is also not rare for Omega and a few others to offer drastically cheaper rates on BA tickets than the BA website itself. I remember buying a LCY-DUB at 31 through them on a day when BA wanted over 100 and more modest but substantial savings are frequent.

I think that you are exactly right that BA are using that 100 to encourage people to accept the cancellation without making any noise and that may well do the trick for them. However, the notion that this was a "manifest error" simply doesn't hold water and whilst this is not my place to say, in my opinion, a case like this one cannot credibly be what the legislator had in mind when designing a protection for sellers in case of manifest error. A large screen TV which shows at 9.99 instead of 999 yes, even a plane ticket on a UK website that would be advertised at $199 whilst it would be intended at 199 arguably, but this with a price that largely replicates the lower end of existing market price ranges? I'd be extremely surprised.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 2:11 am
  #207  
 
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The word mistake should be banned from these parts
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Old Jun 18, 18, 2:26 am
  #208  
 
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I am actually happy with the outcome if I get 100. As I've said that on an open forum, after my flight details and seat allocation were published, I am not able to take this further with BA, which I will not. Having said that, I feel there is a legal grey area that airlines have hidden behind too often, and there really needs to be clarification.

Whether or not you thought it was a mistake fare when you bought it, is something that would need to be proven by BA's legal team, and as it's a "state of mind", it would be extremely difficult. The title having mistake in it, and 204 uses of the word, suggests that the OP thought it might be a mistake fare and others are agreeing that it might. Further personal investigation, by comparing it with other similar fares for example, could have lead the reader to suppose differently, and that's the crucial point.

What is concerning is that all the contract elements are satisfied, there was confirmation from all contract parties and an independent party (flight details appeared on AMADEUS, which is not BA, the purchaser or the OTA owned). There has to be in law a point where the purchase part of a contract can be called satisfied, but it seems that this is not the case for airline tickets. It's fair to assume that most people would have booked the rest of their holiday well before the 2 week deadline, and rightly so.

Error fares are common. I've benefited from many of them, and if fact I have a 66 premium economy flight next month that should have cost me 700. I've left it 10 days, they have corrected the prices and not cancelled it. So now I'm booking hotels and other flights around it. Is 10 days a reasonable time to wait? That's my issue here, who decides how long after a flight has been booked and ticketed that it can be reversed? Make no mistake, these error fares can be dealt with before they happen, if the fare component falls below the estimated cost per head to the airline, then it should not be released to the OTA. Hell, I could code that into anything in about an hour. And that's another issue, why should the customer have to be a safety net for a booking system that is fundamentally flawed?
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Old Jun 18, 18, 3:16 am
  #209  
 
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I have just called the travel agent i booked the ticket from, and have been told that it will take up to 21 days for a refund!!! and no compensation.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.
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Old Jun 18, 18, 3:38 am
  #210  
 
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Originally Posted by sunnyuk View Post
I have just called the travel agent i booked the ticket from, and have been told that it will take up to 21 days for a refund!!! and no compensation.
Regarding the "price mistake" i called the travel agent before i booked, and was told it was a SALE form BA that was only available via them.
Which travel agent?
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