The new BiTB dodge - gatechecking and carrying on
May 26, 2018, 4:06 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2013
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I have never witnessed such behaviour but will be paying more attention in the future! What I do see a lot of and it does really wind me up, is passengers boarding with a carry on bag, popping it into an overhead locker in the first couple of rows, and then disappearing off to their seat down the back
May 26, 2018, 4:20 am
#47
Join Date: Jan 2018
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The discussion was clearly about SH. On LH this is rarely an issue as there are more/bigger lockers and no need for bags to be gate checked.
Of course you give an extreme example, I doubt there are many cases where a CE traveller has paid 10x more.
Also someone in First being jumped by a £10 basic fare? Clearly you are again talking LH but £10 fares on long haul?? Where do I get one?
Still FT wouldn't be what it is if people didn't have something to get those knickers twisted about. Bottom line here is if i) BA had realistic allowances relevant to the space available and ii) enforced it then people wouldn't get so lathered up about being first into a metal tube.
It's not about getting knickers in a twist, it's about BA selling a product with defined benefits (be it through ticket class or loyalty) than can be eroded at the gate. If you are happy with that, I think there's a place for you in the hold, after all, it's the same metal tube...
Personally, I couldn't give a rat's who boards first. I only have status for lounge access and extra hold luggage allowance.
May 26, 2018, 4:52 am
#48
Join Date: Jul 2014
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On one occasion I've seen a frustrated gate agent walking down the aisle and looking for bags which were supposed to be in hold. That was on Amsterdam flight from T5 which was packed and we were in Y.
From my experience - if pax are asked to leave bags at he gate, then all usually do it. If they asked to leave them in the jetty, then they don't as it's not clear / well marked where to leave them.
From my experience - if pax are asked to leave bags at he gate, then all usually do it. If they asked to leave them in the jetty, then they don't as it's not clear / well marked where to leave them.
May 26, 2018, 5:40 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Presumably the pax will have a baggage receipt. If they take the tagged bag on board, what's to stop them claiming the tagged bag, that doesn't arrive on the carousel, is lost, and then claim for all the expensive electronics and clothing in the 'lost' bag.
Seems a mile wide scam opportunity.
May 26, 2018, 5:56 am
#50
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Presumably the pax will have a baggage receipt. If they take the tagged bag on board, what's to stop them claiming the tagged bag, that doesn't arrive on the carousel, is lost, and then claim for all the expensive electronics and clothing in the 'lost' bag.
Seems a mile wide scam opportunity.
You can also fake claim damage.
Not relevant to this discussion.
May 26, 2018, 6:27 am
#51
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I clearly didn't say there were £10 long haul fares. Luxembourg is a fine example, I've flown HBO for £11, and there most definitely were £110 fares on the same flight. In my original post I said "up to 10 times", which is true and I was clearly saying *up to* 10 times, it's literally written in my post.
It's not about getting knickers in a twist, it's about BA selling a product with defined benefits (be it through ticket class or loyalty) than can be eroded at the gate. If you are happy with that, I think there's a place for you in the hold, after all, it's the same metal tube...
Personally, I couldn't give a rat's who boards first. I only have status for lounge access and extra hold luggage allowance.
It's not about getting knickers in a twist, it's about BA selling a product with defined benefits (be it through ticket class or loyalty) than can be eroded at the gate. If you are happy with that, I think there's a place for you in the hold, after all, it's the same metal tube...
Personally, I couldn't give a rat's who boards first. I only have status for lounge access and extra hold luggage allowance.
Snd that there are plenty of GCHs who prefer the Y exit rows?
As for defined benefits, well the amount of hand baggage is indeed defined. Of enforced on all cabins there wouldn't be an issue. Or if there is the allowances are wrong for the densified configurations BA uses these days.
May 26, 2018, 6:53 am
#52
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: BA exec, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 554
Suppose so if BA are not managing it. Allowing folks to take their “tagged” bags down towards the plane to be put into a seemingly self policed makeshift “pen” just allows “opportunity” which folks are proven well able to adopt/ adapt to.
Easyjet give you the HBO Free option at bag drop, a £5 charge I seem to recall. If they take it off you at the boarding pass scan stage it’s gone into their care.
I would echo other posters about the frustration of seeing this policy in practice allowing people onto the plane in advance of Group 1 etc...frustrating. I accept the need to incentivise if they going to do such, however why does it have to be “first on?”
Easyjet give you the HBO Free option at bag drop, a £5 charge I seem to recall. If they take it off you at the boarding pass scan stage it’s gone into their care.
I would echo other posters about the frustration of seeing this policy in practice allowing people onto the plane in advance of Group 1 etc...frustrating. I accept the need to incentivise if they going to do such, however why does it have to be “first on?”
Last edited by Telecasterman; May 26, 2018 at 7:00 am Reason: Spelling
May 26, 2018, 6:53 am
#53
Join Date: Jan 2018
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So when you said earlier that "a £10 basic fare can easily jump in front of GCH/GGL/First/Biz priority boarding just by pretending to gate check their luggage." you presumably agree that in the real world there is actually no way I could jump a first passenger with a £10 basic fare.
Snd that there are plenty of GCHs who prefer the Y exit rows?
As for defined benefits, well the amount of hand baggage is indeed defined. Of enforced on all cabins there wouldn't be an issue. Or if there is the allowances are wrong for the densified configurations BA uses these days.
Seating is irrelevant though, if the only GCH on board was sat in an exit row full of status jumpers who smuggled their cases on board and packed them into the overheads, he'd be upset too. And rightfully so.
Luggage load is a dark art in aviation, you work on averages, historical seasonal loads and sheer guesswork, and BA has never tracked hand baggage. If everyone should turn up with 2 x 23kg carry on cases, on say an A319, that'd be 288 suitcases. They'd not fit in the overheads in a month of Sundays. What BA are doing is what LCC carriers have had years of practice with, and they are finding out it simply doesn't work with their generous allowance. "Densifying" isn't the problem, hand baggage only fares are.
Truth is, upsetting your high revenue passengers to please your low revenue passengers is bad business practice.
May 26, 2018, 7:11 am
#54
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold / OW Emerald
Posts: 753
I was once on a Swiss flight where a passenger had done exactly this. She was in business and had taken her bag on board that should have been gate checked. After boarding complete a discussion started where the crew insisted her bag had to be removed. Passenger resisted. Captain became involed and simply said that there was a discrepancy between what should be in the hold and what actually was in the hold. He then stated we would not depart until this was resolved, Several other passengers started to join the discussion and eventually the women had to release her bag (under very loud protests) and it was put in the hold. Seemed like a straight foreward way of ensuring gate checking is implemented. Don’t mess with the Swiss......
May 26, 2018, 7:47 am
#55
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Nice to see you cherry picking the only thing incorrect with my statement, although, if someone was connecting with BA on a predominantly First journey and Joe Bloggs and his tribe jumped in front of them by fake gate checking their luggage, I expect they'd be a little pissed. I know I would be.
Seating is irrelevant though, if the only GCH on board was sat in an exit row full of status jumpers who smuggled their cases on board and packed them into the overheads, he'd be upset too. And rightfully so.
Luggage load is a dark art in aviation, you work on averages, historical seasonal loads and sheer guesswork, and BA has never tracked hand baggage. If everyone should turn up with 2 x 23kg carry on cases, on say an A319, that'd be 288 suitcases. They'd not fit in the overheads in a month of Sundays. What BA are doing is what LCC carriers have had years of practice with, and they are finding out it simply doesn't work with their generous allowance. "Densifying" isn't the problem, hand baggage only fares are.
Truth is, upsetting your high revenue passengers to please your low revenue passengers is bad business practice.
Seating is irrelevant though, if the only GCH on board was sat in an exit row full of status jumpers who smuggled their cases on board and packed them into the overheads, he'd be upset too. And rightfully so.
Luggage load is a dark art in aviation, you work on averages, historical seasonal loads and sheer guesswork, and BA has never tracked hand baggage. If everyone should turn up with 2 x 23kg carry on cases, on say an A319, that'd be 288 suitcases. They'd not fit in the overheads in a month of Sundays. What BA are doing is what LCC carriers have had years of practice with, and they are finding out it simply doesn't work with their generous allowance. "Densifying" isn't the problem, hand baggage only fares are.
Truth is, upsetting your high revenue passengers to please your low revenue passengers is bad business practice.
Airlines like EasyJet seem to manage though with very short turnarounds and a bias towards hand baggage travellers. Count 150 bags (or whatever) and that's it, the rest don't enter the jetty or stairs. That doesn't seem like a dark art to me.
Bottom line is if you over engineer your processes it all goes wrong. These days travellers are a bit smarter than the desk jockeys at Waterside Towers and if you create the opening people will take advantage.
May 26, 2018, 8:23 am
#56
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Posts: 6,394
Yes, it’s little surprise that people will invariably take advantage - pretty much in any way that suits them - if they / we are given the freedom to do so. Human nature, when all said & done.
The LCC’s have always come in for a lot of flak (and justifiably so in many cases) for their perceived harsh, no-compromise approach, characterised by a rules-is-rules modus operandi. But the fact is, when they say they’re going to enforce carry-on limits, they actually enforce them. And when they announce “Priority Boarders only please”, you’ll struggle to get past the gate agent if your BP doesn’t show ..... er .... Priority Boarding.
It’s been said before that BA could learn from LCC’s where BoB supplies & logistics are concerned - and I think fair to say also that the same applies to baggage and boarding on s/h routes.
The LCC’s have always come in for a lot of flak (and justifiably so in many cases) for their perceived harsh, no-compromise approach, characterised by a rules-is-rules modus operandi. But the fact is, when they say they’re going to enforce carry-on limits, they actually enforce them. And when they announce “Priority Boarders only please”, you’ll struggle to get past the gate agent if your BP doesn’t show ..... er .... Priority Boarding.
It’s been said before that BA could learn from LCC’s where BoB supplies & logistics are concerned - and I think fair to say also that the same applies to baggage and boarding on s/h routes.
May 26, 2018, 8:42 am
#57
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Posts: 2,345
As a frequent GCH SH Y exit row traveller, the downside of exit rows is that you have to stow all your bags; but that's also the upside too as there must be room in the overheads for all of your bags and you can't stow them in front of you. There's often a CC member close by to show you how to open the overwing exit in case you had forgotten; by dint of sticking a gold tag on carry ons it dissuades an eager CC from trying to check it into the hold and they in my experience will sort it out in case there isn't space - sometimes putting the bag into the front clothes locker.
May 26, 2018, 10:36 am
#58
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What is the point of the deal anyway? I mean ..... if you are giving up hand baggage, you don’t need to board early! Just wander on last and take your seat. Why board just to get bashed by the other pax and sit in your cramped seat?!
Anyone who volunteers should automatically be suspected of being up to no good (or if being stupid).
May 26, 2018, 11:01 am
#59
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: BA exec, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 554
As a frequent GCH SH Y exit row traveller, the downside of exit rows is that you have to stow all your bags; but that's also the upside too as there must be room in the overheads for all of your bags and you can't stow them in front of you. There's often a CC member close by to show you how to open the overwing exit in case you had forgotten; by dint of sticking a gold tag on carry ons it dissuades an eager CC from trying to check it into the hold and they in my experience will sort it out in case there isn't space - sometimes putting the bag into the front clothes locker.
Agree CC in general will help, displaying Gold tags for me is a side issue and not something I would do.
This shouldn’t be an issue boarding in group 1 as per group boarding to put your bags above as per exit seat policy .
I know it’s going to be an issue if this failed ( check in your HB and do as you like thereafter) policy is allowed to continue ( thanks Bisonrav for highlighting).
How about HBO, subject space - so cheapest fare/ no status, last to board, overhead space is now full, in the hold it goes mate!
May 26, 2018, 4:15 pm
#60
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