Yyz lhr reduction/elimination of F summer/fall/winter
May 21, 2018, 6:56 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,026
Yyz lhr reduction/elimination of F summer/fall/winter
Good day experts
we just had our reward bookings yyz/lhr return for the fall changed from F to CW. (First world problem I know) but we do enjoy F and have over 800,000 avois to burn and it’s a good use of them for us. However email overnight has downgraded us to CW and we are having trouble getting answers from BA why
it seems from my searches on line there are some flights with F available as revenue but a lot of flights now don’t have even revenue seats and all require connections via USA. Has BA significantly changed the planes to ones with no F now on this route or just eliminated suddenly the F rewards. There are a lot available now from April/May 2019 but almost nothing late Oct Nov. I assume our only choice is to travel in CW for these dates. Not terrible at all just disappointing
many thanks
ACS
we just had our reward bookings yyz/lhr return for the fall changed from F to CW. (First world problem I know) but we do enjoy F and have over 800,000 avois to burn and it’s a good use of them for us. However email overnight has downgraded us to CW and we are having trouble getting answers from BA why
it seems from my searches on line there are some flights with F available as revenue but a lot of flights now don’t have even revenue seats and all require connections via USA. Has BA significantly changed the planes to ones with no F now on this route or just eliminated suddenly the F rewards. There are a lot available now from April/May 2019 but almost nothing late Oct Nov. I assume our only choice is to travel in CW for these dates. Not terrible at all just disappointing
many thanks
ACS
May 21, 2018, 7:13 am
#2
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*SE MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 3,439
We also had a December LHR-YYZ F reward downgraded to CW last night. Disappointing for sure as it's the LHR F experience I enjoy rather than the flight itself. Looks like we've kept the same seats, 1E/F on the 777, so I assume they're just not selling F on this route now.
May 21, 2018, 7:58 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K MM * DL MM * HH Diamond * Marriott Lifetime Titanium * Queen's '92
Posts: 5,948
This happened to me last night as well. I've checked Mondays around the date we were scheduled to fly in December, and there is no F on either flight.
May 21, 2018, 8:13 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Programs: BA Gold (ex-GGL, maybe future Silver), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,197
Looks as though they're removing F from the route due to the 787 engine issues, and YYZ is a good choice to cut four class aircraft from because AC, its main competitor, doesn't offer First.
May 21, 2018, 8:28 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,026
i guess it’s likely not a good source of revenue (F) and the route is more profitable with 3 class service. It’s only 6 hr flight east bound and to be honest we sleep better in CW than F as it’s quieter with less collateral ruckus .....it’s just a nice pleasant day route west bound in F and no we Only get the galleries lounge experience which to be honest is rubbish...it’s silly busy, rubbish food and drink and often not very clean
its CCR that comes with F that will be missed
May 21, 2018, 8:34 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,026
3KJ in the 787. Very nice agent.
First world problem I know but will have to see how the availability in F works out as time progresses for our next trip. And she said they may change the aircraft again so keep an eye out for F availability
unlikely but who knows
thanks for the help everyone
May 21, 2018, 8:38 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,026
So this is the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engine and the issue with transatlantic flights ?? But the 3 class 787 has the same engine and lots of the “changed” aircraft on this route are the 3 class so this makes no sense
May 21, 2018, 8:47 am
#9
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Programs: BA Silver - hard drop from GGL :( SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, AC E50k
Posts: 567
As someone stated above, more likely to do with putting 787-9 airframes on more profitable routes where full F is in demand. My last flight to YYZ the F cabin was barely half full... and of competition doesn’t have F, it is a pretty easy business decision. But again, just my opinion...
May 21, 2018, 8:53 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Programs: BA Gold (ex-GGL, maybe future Silver), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,197
It's speculation but BA has the aircraft, it just can't use them.
They have sourced some Qatar A330s to serve in the meantime, but they don't have either First or WTP. So in readjusting their aircraft pool:
1. They need to preserve F on their most profitable routes (and where they are most vulnerable to losing top-end custom). With no AC F product, an F customer is more likely to live with BA CW than if there is no direct F to go to. YYZ's F offering has always been inconsistent.
2. They need to preserve WTP on their other routes where possible;
3. Their third-tier routes will get J and Y only on QR. QR soft product is better but the A330 seat is quite cramped.
So, even though the 788 has the same engine issues, a smaller pool of aircraft operating can still mean that it makes sense to lose F on that route rather than others where they face first-class competition.
They have sourced some Qatar A330s to serve in the meantime, but they don't have either First or WTP. So in readjusting their aircraft pool:
1. They need to preserve F on their most profitable routes (and where they are most vulnerable to losing top-end custom). With no AC F product, an F customer is more likely to live with BA CW than if there is no direct F to go to. YYZ's F offering has always been inconsistent.
2. They need to preserve WTP on their other routes where possible;
3. Their third-tier routes will get J and Y only on QR. QR soft product is better but the A330 seat is quite cramped.
So, even though the 788 has the same engine issues, a smaller pool of aircraft operating can still mean that it makes sense to lose F on that route rather than others where they face first-class competition.
May 21, 2018, 9:13 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,026
I have ZERO understanding of much of this. I do know the AC “premium product” on this route is apparently sensational and quite cut above AC’s standard previous J transatlantic product from good friends who now fly AC over BA and they suggested we try it for comparison. It is a cut above CW although not F on many ways. It does offer dine on demand and a very comfortable bed
personally F is just a lovely flight and even with Mixed Fleet we have yet in all our F travels been dissatisfied. Not even close really
but if we are going to travel YYZ LHR it may well be on AC for this. And if no F we will use our existing avios in F elsewhere. For me it was a companion ticket on BA with an RBC visa. But with little F we may get an AC Amex with full lounge access, and wait for AC new loyalty program to be rolled out. BA was great while we visited our daughter in the UK 6 times a year but for one to two trips it makes no sense. Many ways to use BA and lots of avios on other routes and even airlines. This route just doesn’t seem to be a priority with BA. The lounge that was one of the best outstation lounges is gone and now they have reduced F. As a customer we have choices and that’s a good thing. I was just really curious why the elimination (significant reduction) in F on this route is all
personally F is just a lovely flight and even with Mixed Fleet we have yet in all our F travels been dissatisfied. Not even close really
but if we are going to travel YYZ LHR it may well be on AC for this. And if no F we will use our existing avios in F elsewhere. For me it was a companion ticket on BA with an RBC visa. But with little F we may get an AC Amex with full lounge access, and wait for AC new loyalty program to be rolled out. BA was great while we visited our daughter in the UK 6 times a year but for one to two trips it makes no sense. Many ways to use BA and lots of avios on other routes and even airlines. This route just doesn’t seem to be a priority with BA. The lounge that was one of the best outstation lounges is gone and now they have reduced F. As a customer we have choices and that’s a good thing. I was just really curious why the elimination (significant reduction) in F on this route is all
No criticism on BA. They do what’s best for them
Last edited by aircrashsurvivor; May 21, 2018 at 9:18 am
May 21, 2018, 10:04 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: YYZ / LHR
Programs: AC SE100k
Posts: 262
True -- and as customers, clearly we are free to do what's good for us as well. I switched from BA to AC this year, and after 4 YYZ-LHR round trips on AC J this year (after not having flown AC at all for about 15 years), I can very happily say that I haven't come close to regretting the decision. The odd op-up to BA F (in addition to fairly regular F redemptions) was a nice bonus flying on BA, and now that that's gone on this route, it reinforces the argument to switch to AC. The hard and soft product on BA is now quite inferior, aside from the excellent check-in experience in the BA First area at LHR T5. All future BA bookings for us will be redemptions (which I think are still good value in conjunction with 2-for-1s).
May 21, 2018, 2:45 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: BAEC Silver, Hilton Gold, IHG Gold, SPG Preferred Plus
Posts: 23
Thanks for posting this - we had an anniversary trip booked in December LHR-YYZ in First using a 2 for 1. Just logged in to find that we too have been shifted from First to CW.
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