Losing faith in BAEC 241 Voucher
May 5, 2018, 4:03 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,413
Here’s a potential trick, though you’ll be guinea-pigging a little.
BA are now amenable to T-355ers booking their return legs at 1am for full avios, then calling in the morning to have that leg “vouchered” - i.e. you get half the avios back. But so far they seem to leave the second booking separate.
That means they don’t reprice the taxes on the inbound. If you can make a return from HKG work the taxes will be £20, not £200 (they’re never £370 inbound), because on the YQ rules on ex-HKG bookings.
BA are now amenable to T-355ers booking their return legs at 1am for full avios, then calling in the morning to have that leg “vouchered” - i.e. you get half the avios back. But so far they seem to leave the second booking separate.
That means they don’t reprice the taxes on the inbound. If you can make a return from HKG work the taxes will be £20, not £200 (they’re never £370 inbound), because on the YQ rules on ex-HKG bookings.
But ... ultimately a voucher that has a cost to acquire, in exchange for beneficial redemptions on direct BA routes, probably isn’t for you if you don’t want to go where BA fly.
Last edited by pauldb; May 5, 2018 at 4:15 am
May 5, 2018, 4:14 am
#17
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 120
Bit of a first world problem this one, the voucher is still the best way for the average Joe to experience a long haul business class flight, and with some careful planning is achievable annually for practically everyone with enough disposable income to funnel the required spend onto the card but not to buy cash flights. You just have to have a degree of flexibility around time and dates!
Highly recommend Vietnam, amazing place.
Highly recommend Vietnam, amazing place.
May 5, 2018, 4:27 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,683
There are people that use the 241 for Cape Town or Australia and say it’s a huge saving. Others use it on routes where it really doesn’t represent value as they see it. I have one, have never previously used one, and I’m completely underwhelmed with it, because it’s unlikely to be much use to me. I mostly do the USA, and travel alone, but I knew this when I got the voucher, which was really side effect of the BAPP sign up bonus. It’s weighing up the taxes and fees against a good sale fare, and the loss of TP and Avios versus a revenue fare. When you have a small window of opportunity, specific destinations, the voucher is inevitably harder to use. To be honest OP if it’s that important you should have really thought through whether the CC spend was sensible on that card.
I have used several Lloyd’s vouchers, and have no problem using them on SH returns. I regard a saving on something I want to do, as much greater than a supposed greater saving flying somewhere I didn’t particularly want to be. Why not use the 241 on a flight midhaul for a nice long weekend, Malta/Greece or NYC/Boston/DC for example.
May 5, 2018, 4:28 am
#19
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bangkok / London
Programs: BA Silver, AmEx Platinum, AVIS Presidents Club, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 1,106
I think for me the biggest drawback is having to start in the UK. The taxes and fees are so high, and I don’t see why I couldn’t use it on say a one way HKG-LHR leg only (paying £32 in tax) and forfeit the other sector rather than being forced to use it on LHR-HKG-LHR with huge taxes fees and carrier charges.
I’m based in Bangkok at the moment but still have residence in the UK so I have an AmEx earning me a 2-4-1 each year which I usually manage to use for something, but my main reason for sticking to BAEC is the amazingly cheap flights I can get locally ex-BKK.
This includes the obvious such as Cathay to HK, Malaysia to KL etc but also some extras such as Qatar to Hanoi, Royal Jordanian to Hong Kong etc. I usually fly home to London via Hong Kong so that I can get all the way to London for Avios + £32 in taxes (even in a higher cabin!) on the A380 and then fly back in a cheap economy to avoid the excessive taxes.
I realise my situation is atypical but I would imagine lots of other people have slightly odd lives on here!
May 5, 2018, 5:10 am
#20
formerly fdemoulin
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, BA Silver, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 916
Following the 2015 BAEC devaluation I moved my credit card usage to hotel loyalty cards because I just found it too difficult and uneconomical to use Avios (especially as I'm based in the North with no direct overseas BA flights). However, I still earn enough Avios through business flying that I decided to earn another 2-4-1 voucher to maximise them. And yet again I find myself stunned at how I can't use it for what I want.
The wife and I are planning a trip to Cambodia, Maldives and Vietnam. It seemed logical, given the distance, to use the 2-4-1 to fly CW return on this journey... not so easy!
Let me preface this (for those that can't be bothered to read much further) that there have been various opportunities to fly Business to Bangkok from London and Europe for £900-1500 per person in the last 12 months, so that is the benchmark to compare BA's amazingly generous voucher with.
First problem I had, BA do not fly to Vietnam or Cambodia themselves, but the 2-4-1 voucher can only be used on BA metal.
So, what is the nearest place I can fly to using BA so I can use the voucher? Looks like Bangkok from what I can see. What is it going to cost me to get to Bangkok return in CW?
We plan to go in May 2019 due to our work schedules (hence we are looking now at flight options ready for the 355 day window), which I'm presuming is off peak.
75,000 Avios one way with £370 in fees and taxes.
With the 2-4-1 voucher that means I am paying 150,000 Avios, a 2-4-1 voucher, and £1500 for two people to get to Bangkok and back in Business/CW.
This is not even where we want to be! So we will then have to buy short haul flights on other carriers costing us connection time which needs to be long enough to account for potential delays as flights will be on different tickets.
I'm never confident working out the pence per point value of a redemption but from I can tell, at BEST, I am getting 1p per Avios even though I'm using 2-4-1 voucher, and in return I've considerably limited in my travel options.
Or I can stump up £2000-3000 in cash and probably get flights on far better business class products (prices listed above were from Qatar, Swiss & Garuda) to Vietnam (not BKK) with more date flexability and without needing to book 355 days before I want to travel. The only downside will be a connection along the way, but being on the same ticket, this will be a much simpler and shorter connection than if using different carriers on different tickets.
This to me shows that the 2-4-1 voucher and Avios no longer holds value for my travel style, and probably many other peoples.
I have posted this for two reasons. The first is to help other people who like me are thinking "I must be doing something wrong, it CAN'T be this difficult". I did search FT first looking for other people's 2-4-1 experiences but didn't find much.
The second reason is in case I really am doing something wrong. Maybe I've chosen the most expensive destination (in terms of taxes and fees) which articifically increase the price compared to the average redemption. Or perhaps I'm missing a trick about using the 2-4-1 voucher on partner airlines. Or something even dumber.
The wife and I are planning a trip to Cambodia, Maldives and Vietnam. It seemed logical, given the distance, to use the 2-4-1 to fly CW return on this journey... not so easy!
Let me preface this (for those that can't be bothered to read much further) that there have been various opportunities to fly Business to Bangkok from London and Europe for £900-1500 per person in the last 12 months, so that is the benchmark to compare BA's amazingly generous voucher with.
First problem I had, BA do not fly to Vietnam or Cambodia themselves, but the 2-4-1 voucher can only be used on BA metal.
So, what is the nearest place I can fly to using BA so I can use the voucher? Looks like Bangkok from what I can see. What is it going to cost me to get to Bangkok return in CW?
We plan to go in May 2019 due to our work schedules (hence we are looking now at flight options ready for the 355 day window), which I'm presuming is off peak.
75,000 Avios one way with £370 in fees and taxes.
With the 2-4-1 voucher that means I am paying 150,000 Avios, a 2-4-1 voucher, and £1500 for two people to get to Bangkok and back in Business/CW.
This is not even where we want to be! So we will then have to buy short haul flights on other carriers costing us connection time which needs to be long enough to account for potential delays as flights will be on different tickets.
I'm never confident working out the pence per point value of a redemption but from I can tell, at BEST, I am getting 1p per Avios even though I'm using 2-4-1 voucher, and in return I've considerably limited in my travel options.
Or I can stump up £2000-3000 in cash and probably get flights on far better business class products (prices listed above were from Qatar, Swiss & Garuda) to Vietnam (not BKK) with more date flexability and without needing to book 355 days before I want to travel. The only downside will be a connection along the way, but being on the same ticket, this will be a much simpler and shorter connection than if using different carriers on different tickets.
This to me shows that the 2-4-1 voucher and Avios no longer holds value for my travel style, and probably many other peoples.
I have posted this for two reasons. The first is to help other people who like me are thinking "I must be doing something wrong, it CAN'T be this difficult". I did search FT first looking for other people's 2-4-1 experiences but didn't find much.
The second reason is in case I really am doing something wrong. Maybe I've chosen the most expensive destination (in terms of taxes and fees) which articifically increase the price compared to the average redemption. Or perhaps I'm missing a trick about using the 2-4-1 voucher on partner airlines. Or something even dumber.
we we are in the same position but the benefit of a 2 for 1 is that you can cancel 24 hours prior. We are doing london Kul back from Bkk and it will cost around 1k for internal flights into Yangon and Phuket, but for us it is worth it as it works out as a flexible ticket. You would be better off just flying on a reduced bus fare ex uk.
May 5, 2018, 5:17 am
#21
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,225
I’m no apologist for BA but I think the 2-4-1 still offers good value. We’ve just flown BA from Gatwick to Orlando and we used Avios plus a 2-4-1 for my daughter and I and purchased a ticket for my wife. We bought the ticket in a sale so it was about £1500 return. For me at least, £2500 plus a voucher and Avios doesn’t seem like a bad deal to me for 3 flat beds return to North America. Sure it’s not the best Business class product out there but it goes where we want in comfort and direct. I’m a functional flyer more than anything else - it is a means to getting where I want to go in comfort.
I travel on Etihad a lot for business but I don’t go to the same places for holidays. I hear a lot about ex-UK fares and Qatar sales but I don’t want to go indirect or travel to somewhere in Europe with my 3 year old just to go on holiday so I’m prepared to put up with a slightly less impressive product for convenience. We book flights a year in advance and generally speaking have no problem with availability to North America.
I travel on Etihad a lot for business but I don’t go to the same places for holidays. I hear a lot about ex-UK fares and Qatar sales but I don’t want to go indirect or travel to somewhere in Europe with my 3 year old just to go on holiday so I’m prepared to put up with a slightly less impressive product for convenience. We book flights a year in advance and generally speaking have no problem with availability to North America.
May 5, 2018, 6:55 am
#22
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: Aeroplan, Amex AeroPlat
Posts: 977
I find redeeming 241 for business class on BA a poor value (since the product is underwhelming at best) so we always use it for F - we are based in NA and travel to Europe once a year. F in BA is very nice! Can’t compare to F on Cathay or Singapore Airlines but definitely beats the other F products from North America.
May 5, 2018, 11:43 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cheshire, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold; IHG Plat; My Waitrose Card (Great for free coffee!)
Posts: 41
I think 2-4-1 vouchers are a great opportunity to get some great redemptions, you just have to be a little flexible, and plan ahead to get the best from them.
We (Mrs MM &I) have successfully used 1or 2 vouchers a year for over 10 years.
I’ve just booked MAN-KUL, returning SIN-MAN in CW next April for 192,500 Avios and £1199. Which for 2 I think is really good value. We are connecting via Borneo with Air Asia @ <£100 for 2!
In previous years we’ve done various F & CW to AUH,DXB,AMM,SEA,LAX,DEN,ATL,SAN,SFO,ORD,JFK,HKG,PE K,YVR,YYC,YYZ, etc.
Personally I’d save the voucher for another trip on BA’s network and look for a ex EU or QR sale etc
We (Mrs MM &I) have successfully used 1or 2 vouchers a year for over 10 years.
I’ve just booked MAN-KUL, returning SIN-MAN in CW next April for 192,500 Avios and £1199. Which for 2 I think is really good value. We are connecting via Borneo with Air Asia @ <£100 for 2!
In previous years we’ve done various F & CW to AUH,DXB,AMM,SEA,LAX,DEN,ATL,SAN,SFO,ORD,JFK,HKG,PE K,YVR,YYC,YYZ, etc.
Personally I’d save the voucher for another trip on BA’s network and look for a ex EU or QR sale etc
May 5, 2018, 11:46 am
#26
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond *, IHG, Couples Romance Rewards
Posts: 2,350
It depends on where you are going. We get 2 companion vouchers a year; one we use for Jamaica (always good availability for reward flights) and go out and back in business for 500 each - good value as it's a 10 hour flight.
We've also used them to travel to Hong Kong and Singapore - again normally plenty of availability. Some destinations go very quickly (e.g. Maldives and Cape Town). They are not so good value for traveling in long haul economy.
Only problem for us is not using too many as then it makes it a bit harder to get necessary tier points to maintain status.
The other advantage is you can cancel the flights at short notice; we grabbed reward flights to Male and then just today swapped for revenue flights as there was a good offer on (with a total of approx 90000 avios coming from the revenue flights/holiday)
We've also used them to travel to Hong Kong and Singapore - again normally plenty of availability. Some destinations go very quickly (e.g. Maldives and Cape Town). They are not so good value for traveling in long haul economy.
Only problem for us is not using too many as then it makes it a bit harder to get necessary tier points to maintain status.
The other advantage is you can cancel the flights at short notice; we grabbed reward flights to Male and then just today swapped for revenue flights as there was a good offer on (with a total of approx 90000 avios coming from the revenue flights/holiday)
May 5, 2018, 11:57 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cheshire, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold; IHG Plat; My Waitrose Card (Great for free coffee!)
Posts: 41
It depends on where you are going. We get 2 companion vouchers a year; one we use for Jamaica (always good availability for reward flights) and go out and back in business for 500 each - good value as it's a 10 hour flight.
We've also used them to travel to Hong Kong and Singapore - again normally plenty of availability. Some destinations go very quickly (e.g. Maldives and Cape Town). They are not so good value for traveling in long haul economy.
Only problem for us is not using too many as then it makes it a bit harder to get necessary tier points to maintain status.
The other advantage is you can cancel the flights at short notice; we grabbed reward flights to Male and then just today swapped for revenue flights as there was a good offer on (with a total of approx 90000 avios coming from the revenue flights/holiday)
We've also used them to travel to Hong Kong and Singapore - again normally plenty of availability. Some destinations go very quickly (e.g. Maldives and Cape Town). They are not so good value for traveling in long haul economy.
Only problem for us is not using too many as then it makes it a bit harder to get necessary tier points to maintain status.
The other advantage is you can cancel the flights at short notice; we grabbed reward flights to Male and then just today swapped for revenue flights as there was a good offer on (with a total of approx 90000 avios coming from the revenue flights/holiday)
May 5, 2018, 12:01 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond *, IHG, Couples Romance Rewards
Posts: 2,350
May 5, 2018, 12:13 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Aberdeenshire
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 153