Aborted TP Run
May 4, 2018, 9:28 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
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Aborted TP Run
I would appreciate the combined Knowledge of people on this board to help me work through a problem incurred during my latest TP run.
I have been through EC 261 but have a number of questions (I will try and keep this brief).
Myself and three friends (three Golds and one GGL / if that matters) on a CAI-KOA TP run, all booked through BA. Original return routing KOA-LAX-MIA-MAD-LHR-CAI plus the positioning return CAI-LHR. All flights were in Business except transcontinental USA which were in first.
However when we got to MIA the flight to MAD was cancelled (technical issues). It should have departed at 7.00pm but after countless delays was finally cancelled at 2.00am. Flight booking for this flight had a BA flight number but was operated by American. The ladies in the Flagship Lounge in MIA checked our options and the best they came up with was MIA-New Orleans-LHR.
When we arrived at the airport later that day (we had been given hotel and meals for the night), this booking had not been finalised in the system and was no longer available. The First Class check-in supervisor then offered us MIA-BOS-LHR which we took. Two of the group had important meetings to attend on the day after our original return. Unfortunately the MIA-BOS was in economy (the shame of it
). This put us back into LHR a day late. While in MIA I called the GGL line who told me they could either hold the remaining flights LHR-CAI and CAI-LHR or claim a full refund for them.
Q1. What are my chances (if any) for claiming compo under EC 261?
Q2. Am I right in believing that we can claim all the TPs and Avios for the whole booking in this case?
Q3. How do we stand with the positioning flight which was booked under a different ticket number?
Q4. Minor issue under the circumstances but can we claim for the downgrading of our flight from MIA to BOS?
Q5. Is there anything I have missed??
I have been through EC 261 but have a number of questions (I will try and keep this brief).
Myself and three friends (three Golds and one GGL / if that matters) on a CAI-KOA TP run, all booked through BA. Original return routing KOA-LAX-MIA-MAD-LHR-CAI plus the positioning return CAI-LHR. All flights were in Business except transcontinental USA which were in first.
However when we got to MIA the flight to MAD was cancelled (technical issues). It should have departed at 7.00pm but after countless delays was finally cancelled at 2.00am. Flight booking for this flight had a BA flight number but was operated by American. The ladies in the Flagship Lounge in MIA checked our options and the best they came up with was MIA-New Orleans-LHR.
When we arrived at the airport later that day (we had been given hotel and meals for the night), this booking had not been finalised in the system and was no longer available. The First Class check-in supervisor then offered us MIA-BOS-LHR which we took. Two of the group had important meetings to attend on the day after our original return. Unfortunately the MIA-BOS was in economy (the shame of it
). This put us back into LHR a day late. While in MIA I called the GGL line who told me they could either hold the remaining flights LHR-CAI and CAI-LHR or claim a full refund for them.Q1. What are my chances (if any) for claiming compo under EC 261?
Q2. Am I right in believing that we can claim all the TPs and Avios for the whole booking in this case?
Q3. How do we stand with the positioning flight which was booked under a different ticket number?
Q4. Minor issue under the circumstances but can we claim for the downgrading of our flight from MIA to BOS?
Q5. Is there anything I have missed??
May 4, 2018, 9:33 am
#2
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,152
In answer to Q2 I believe this might be useful and you should get the original TP's etc if you are crediting them to BAEC.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...r-s-guide.html
Hopefully others will chip in with your other questions
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...r-s-guide.html
Hopefully others will chip in with your other questions
May 4, 2018, 9:41 am
#4
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Goodness, quite a run around. However thankfully you aren't heading to Hawai'i today, that isn't looking good.
Q1. What are my chances (if any) for claiming compo under EC 261?
None, because you were on an American operated service to MAD, it's one of the downsides to using AA over the Atlantic. They may give some customer service remedy however, for the hassle caused. You need to send a complaint in via the form online, mentioning your BAEC number and status. See the EC261 thread in the Dashboard.
Q2. Am I right in believing that we can claim all the TPs and Avios for the whole booking in this case?
If it was BA ticketed, you should be successful on this, see the ORC thread in the Dashboard. The AA sectors may be tricky, there again you should have picked a few additional TPs for the rerouting I guess.
Q3. How do we stand with the positioning flight which was booked under a different ticket number?
Unlikely I would say. One of the risks involved here. At a pinch you could try for the Article 19 of the Montreal Convention on AA, but US jurisdiction have tended to favour airlines in this area and I rarely hear of success stories.
Q4. Minor issue uender the circumstances but can we claim for the downgrading of our flight from MIA to BOS?
Ordinarily yes, under EC261, but since this is AA flight again. So your remediation is in with the previous comment about customer relations with AA. Putting the two factors together, you may be given an AA travel voucher valid for 1 year against an AA ticketed revenue booking.
Q1. What are my chances (if any) for claiming compo under EC 261?
None, because you were on an American operated service to MAD, it's one of the downsides to using AA over the Atlantic. They may give some customer service remedy however, for the hassle caused. You need to send a complaint in via the form online, mentioning your BAEC number and status. See the EC261 thread in the Dashboard.
Q2. Am I right in believing that we can claim all the TPs and Avios for the whole booking in this case?
If it was BA ticketed, you should be successful on this, see the ORC thread in the Dashboard. The AA sectors may be tricky, there again you should have picked a few additional TPs for the rerouting I guess.
Q3. How do we stand with the positioning flight which was booked under a different ticket number?
Unlikely I would say. One of the risks involved here. At a pinch you could try for the Article 19 of the Montreal Convention on AA, but US jurisdiction have tended to favour airlines in this area and I rarely hear of success stories.
Q4. Minor issue uender the circumstances but can we claim for the downgrading of our flight from MIA to BOS?
Ordinarily yes, under EC261, but since this is AA flight again. So your remediation is in with the previous comment about customer relations with AA. Putting the two factors together, you may be given an AA travel voucher valid for 1 year against an AA ticketed revenue booking.
May 4, 2018, 9:47 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Close to Heathrow
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Thank you CWS. This is, unfortunately, what I feared.
I will give each item a try but expect, as you have indicated, the worst.
Yes the news from Hawaii is quite alarming. We were driving through that very district last Saturday.
I will give each item a try but expect, as you have indicated, the worst.
Yes the news from Hawaii is quite alarming. We were driving through that very district last Saturday.
May 4, 2018, 9:50 am
#8
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
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May 4, 2018, 9:52 am
#9
Original Poster
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May 4, 2018, 10:19 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Based on the OP's info provided, I'm assuming that they didn't fly the final LHR-CAI sector of the delayed booking, nor the separately ticketed CAI-LHR so interesting to learn that TP and Avios can be claimed for the aborted LHR-CAI sector. Useful for some of the TP runners on the board in the event of a delay when they never intended to take the last sector?
Echo c-w-s's thoughts about not being on Big Island today. I last went to Kona a couple of years ago. I have family there so it wasn't a TP run (but TP's were optimised thanks to reading suggested routes on Flyertalk ). The open air airport buildings and surrounding lava fields make for a surreal arrival and departure experience.
Echo c-w-s's thoughts about not being on Big Island today. I last went to Kona a couple of years ago. I have family there so it wasn't a TP run (but TP's were optimised thanks to reading suggested routes on Flyertalk
). The open air airport buildings and surrounding lava fields make for a surreal arrival and departure experience.
Last edited by gcuk; May 4, 2018 at 10:25 am
May 4, 2018, 12:31 pm
#11
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May 4, 2018, 2:36 pm
#12
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May 27, 2018, 4:59 am
#13
Original Poster
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Update.
Just an update on this aborted TP run shown above.The day after I returned from the run I called the GGL line to see what our options were re the two final flights LHR-CAI & CAI-LHR (on separate tickets). Very aware of normal situation re, separate tickets as informed by CWS in his response above.
The GGL agent said that the TWO flights were put on hold so that I could decide whether to take a refund or have flights re-booked for a later date. I needed to confer with my fellow fliers and subsequently re-called the GGL a few days later.
Now I was told that these flights had been cancelled as we were deemed as “no-shows”. I was told that BA had re-booked these flights to the day we actually landed in LHR but we had absolutely no notification of this change. I tried to reason with the agent but to no avail.
Unknown to me, at the time, one of my friends had called the Gold line and had managed to get his two flights re-booked for a later date. He did mention to the agent that there were four of us but didn’t have our individual booking refs for the positioning flights.
I had these and called the GGL line the next day to be told again that it is IMPOSSIBLE to re-issue these tickets. I tried to reason with them that as they had re-issued tickets for one of the party of four then it isn’t impossible and should be extended to the other three.Despite a number of further calls with agents going off line to confer with the supervisor who actually authorised the first re-booking the answer was still “no-way”.
As a “show of faith” they would let us re-book the LHR-CAI flights but we would have to buy new return tickets to LHR.
I know I may be in for a roasting here but am I being unreasonable believing that we have been unfairly treated?
The GGL agent said that the TWO flights were put on hold so that I could decide whether to take a refund or have flights re-booked for a later date. I needed to confer with my fellow fliers and subsequently re-called the GGL a few days later.
Now I was told that these flights had been cancelled as we were deemed as “no-shows”. I was told that BA had re-booked these flights to the day we actually landed in LHR but we had absolutely no notification of this change. I tried to reason with the agent but to no avail.
Unknown to me, at the time, one of my friends had called the Gold line and had managed to get his two flights re-booked for a later date. He did mention to the agent that there were four of us but didn’t have our individual booking refs for the positioning flights.
I had these and called the GGL line the next day to be told again that it is IMPOSSIBLE to re-issue these tickets. I tried to reason with them that as they had re-issued tickets for one of the party of four then it isn’t impossible and should be extended to the other three.Despite a number of further calls with agents going off line to confer with the supervisor who actually authorised the first re-booking the answer was still “no-way”.
As a “show of faith” they would let us re-book the LHR-CAI flights but we would have to buy new return tickets to LHR.
I know I may be in for a roasting here but am I being unreasonable believing that we have been unfairly treated?
May 27, 2018, 6:12 am
#15
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The flight was a tier point run. The pricing from Cairo-Hawaii-Cairo was cheap. To add the positioning flights to start in LHR would push the pricing up to an unreasonable amount. This is the same reason people use ex-EU flights.