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BA Agent inadvertently cancelled my booking.

BA Agent inadvertently cancelled my booking.

Old May 3, 2018, 5:20 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by DrSE
Of course I don’t have the right to fly on this flight or cabin which I could enforce by police but I have a contract.
It's nothing to do with enforcement by the police. Yes, you have a contract - but your contract does not give you an unconditional right to a seat in the business class cabin, or indeed an unconditional right to a seat anywhere on the aircraft.
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Old May 3, 2018, 10:11 am
  #47  
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I think we Germans might just have a very different idea of what a contract is. Our law system might be different from the British or US one. So don’t just make it more easy than it is. You are not depending on the good will of an airline.
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Old May 3, 2018, 10:28 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by DrSE
I think we Germans might just have a very different idea of what a contract is.
Well, anything is possible - either collectively or individually. Do let us know how you get on.
Mike P and LCSinTexas like this.
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Old May 3, 2018, 12:39 pm
  #49  
 
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Not being a lawyer, let alone a German lawyer, I'm curious: Will German contract law even apply here? It sounds like the ticket was originally booked as an ex-US, despite the long stopover in Berlin. Since OP seems to be conceding that this scenario (or his/her handling of it) is going to fall outside the EU regulations, would German courts jump into this dispute? I couldn't find anything about this in the CoC but also didn't look very hard.
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Old May 3, 2018, 1:10 pm
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
I think that a note of caution is required before treating what has been written by some posters as a solid and reliable statement of what the legal position is...
A wise post. And I say that as someone who... well, who's supposed to know the legal position on this kinda thing...
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Old May 3, 2018, 1:14 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by CrazyJ82
Not being a lawyer, let alone a German lawyer, I'm curious: Will German contract law even apply here? It sounds like the ticket was originally booked as an ex-US, despite the long stopover in Berlin. Since OP seems to be conceding that this scenario (or his/her handling of it) is going to fall outside the EU regulations, would German courts jump into this dispute? I couldn't find anything about this in the CoC but also didn't look very hard.
I was ging to post something similar yesterday. It’s not clear to me that this contact is subject to German law.
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Old May 3, 2018, 1:50 pm
  #52  
 
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Rather than airport downgrades etc, at its basic level isn't this a case of BA changing the flights and not informing the flyer that they had done so?
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Old May 3, 2018, 2:10 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by MrPeaceful
Rather than airport downgrades etc, at its basic level isn't this a case of BA changing the flights and not informing the flyer that they had done so?
Yes, though this was not the intent of anyone, neither the airline nor their agent nor the passenger. I think we've seen this before on a small number of occasions: an agent is asked to check out a "what if" suggestion from the passenger, they check it out using the existing reservation as a template, maybe the agent says "I can't price this, someone from fares will need to call you back" and the next thing that transpires is that the reservation is either not ticketed or gets cancelled. I doubt it would have been valid for travel on the proposed date either. It's a combination of elderly internal IT and lack of care/attention by the agent(s) concerned. Now the OP here did spot this before going to the airport, and had there been 1 seat available then this problem would have been resolved with just a few apologies for the hassle. So my interpretation is that BA cancelled the ticket in error, due to the agent's/agents' mistake.

But let me welcome you to Flyertalk and welcome you to the BA forum. MrPeaceful, it's always good to get new people join up with us here. I hope we will see more of you here.
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Old May 3, 2018, 2:18 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by DrSE
I think we Germans might just have a very different idea of what a contract is. Our law system might be different from the British or US one. So don’t just make it more easy than it is. You are not depending on the good will of an airline.
Rather than telling us about what "we Germans" think of contract law, why not identify the contract you had in the first place?

Perhaps it is true that you agreed to a different contract than the standard form contract published by BA. If so, of course that contract will apply and we are all fools for having relied on the website version. On the other hand, if you agreed to a contract which states that class of service and seat assignments are not guaranteed (in so many words) and German contract law would provide for the opposite, so be it.

While it is not usually a good idea to rely on a practice as lawful just because it has always been that way, I would be somewhat wary of having BA's local offices stormed by the police based on the fact that people are downgraded every day on flights to and from Germany and somehow the police are not storming the relevant carrier's office.

Do let us know how this ends.
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Old May 3, 2018, 4:27 pm
  #55  
 
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My opinion

Claimant requested a change and a change was proposed, the question is did the quote mention any change had been made and the claimant would be required to confirm or reject the cost? Maybe it was emailed but not explained hence why BA accept they made a mistake?

In either case by error or on purpose, BA cancelled the contract, them accepting it was done in error however it does not change the legal position, that the contract was cancelled by BA and any refunds would be provided in line with the typical T&C's.

BA offered to remedy the situation, again they would argue as good will, given no contract is enforce a proposal was made and the proposal was rejected. Your entitlement is legally based on the contract a partial refund, however expecting BA to offer the difference a judge would say is unreasonable. BA would argue on the basics they offer to travel you from A to B, they offered an alternative class and offered to compensate. They were unable to offer the class you requested and I assume you needed to fly in the date requested as oppose to a day later. Given EU261 does not apply your in uncharted territory and working on common law basis where class of travel has level of a value.

BA would either as good will agree to refund the amount if they choose but have no legal obligation, if they opt for a partial refund they are applying the contract or law. Your argument for same class could work on a common law basis where the argument is it’s unreasonable for person of your stature to be in an lower class ie footballer, known ceo.

It will be interesting to see how this ends, good luck!

Last edited by suley; May 3, 2018 at 4:33 pm
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Old May 3, 2018, 4:33 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave

MrPeaceful, it's always good to get new people join up with us here. I hope we will see more of you here.
c-w-s​​​​​​​ - while I echo your sentiments I wouldn’t hold your breath. ​​​​​​​Mr Peaceful has taken three years from joining FT to writing his maiden post! Come on ​​​​​​​Mr Peaceful​​​​​​​, no need to be so shy.
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Old May 3, 2018, 6:15 pm
  #57  
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Wasn't there some case in a German court that said that flight coupons could be used in any order?

BTW, IANAL but my understanding is that German law is closer to French Napoleanic law than British/American style common law.

My guess is that the issue is whether the EC261 regulations take precedence over any national contract law or similar.
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Old May 3, 2018, 6:35 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Wasn't there some case in a German court that said that flight coupons could be used in any order?

BTW, IANAL but my understanding is that German law is closer to French Napoleanic law than British/American style common law.

My guess is that the issue is whether the EC261 regulations take precedence over any national contract law or similar.
I don't recall that it said that they have to be used in any order, more that there has to be the option to do so. The Lufthansa site, when making a multi city booking, offers option for fare search of "I would like to benefit from the best offers and will use my flights in the booked sequence" or "I would like to have the flexibility to change the sequence of my flights"
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Old May 8, 2018, 3:48 pm
  #59  
 
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Just as a point of interest.
I spent the weekend with my former brother-in-law, who is a German lawyer. I brought this up, and he wanted to know where the ticket was bought. I don't think we know that yet.
He also said that these disputes can run for years. I suppose that's why he owns a large house :-)
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Old Jun 5, 2018, 4:37 am
  #60  
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Just to let you know.
BA sent me a letter today after I sent a Fax 2 weeks ago to BA Germany. They agreed on full reimbursement + 10K avios to my gold account (that might have been helping) still I think I would have had good chances at court. Anyways I am once again happy with how BA handles cases in the end.

Last edited by DrSE; Jun 5, 2018 at 4:52 am
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