EsherFlyer

Since you didn't enter the new contract your remedy is presumably under the original one?

Mike P

I'm not quite sure why you started this thread really. You've asked for advice and some very knowledgeable people, including at least one poster I know is a lawyer, have given you advice relating to the facts as you've stated them yet you seem determined to ignore what you are being told?

KARFA

Often1

OP keeps asking where it is in the law it is stated that BA need not pay him his EUR 2,100. But, that is the wrong question. The question to ask is, "what are BA's obligations?" It has two separate obligations. Legal requirements set forth in law are primary. Thus, EC 261/2004. In addition, parties may contract for services such as air tickets. That is what OP and BA also did. There is then a third set of "happening" which is what BA is prepared to voluntarily do as a matter of customer service and accounts for the occasional anomylous result.
The first two are actionable. The third is not.

1. Clearly the Regulation provides for one remedy and one remedy only, e.g., a 75% refund of the segment ticket price. It does not provide for the alternative remedies of cancellation with refund, or rebooking under "comparable conditions", or at a later date. While BA may choose to offer a refund, it need not.

2. The contract to which OP and BA agreed provides no further relief unless one considers a downgrade to a ticket a change to the flight. In that event, all OP gets is a refund which BA is prepared to voluntarily do anyway.

Nowhere is there language which suggests that OP may take matters into his own hands and then argue that his unilateral decision obligates the other party.

The practical question of what on earth OP is doing by taking a Y seat with an empty middle vs. PE is beyond me, but that is a matter of personal choice. It simply suggests that OP books by the name of the class of service rather than any of the features of the service itself.

DrSE

Its called discussion and I see you opinions I have my opinion I think thats legit. No one here is a german judge and we will see how it goes Thank you.

LondonElite

I think this is probably the most concise answer in the whole thread.

DrSE

You could e.g. look into § 637 of the german civil law (BGB) also 634 is quite interesting. You are allowed to do it yourself if BA refuses to do so.

Phil the Flyer

DrSE

In terms of privacy yes. The blocked middle seat (it was a complete row). Friendly Service. Of course I see the pros and cons BA PE an LH C but thats not the law question here. Its actually a frequent flyer freak thing. I doubt any judge would care about the seat.

EsherFlyer

I don't think many here would argue that BA deserve to win in either jurisdiction on moral grounds, and a lot of the above advice / commentary was I think about setting your expectations and potentially avoiding wasted time in UK courts.

It'll be interesting to see the result under German law. I think you had a slim chance of success in a UK court with a sympathetic judge, and maybe a stronger one in Germany ^.

NickB

I think that a note of caution is required before treating what has been written by some posters as a solid and reliable statement of what the legal position is. I, for one, could not share in your assessment that what CWS and some others have said as sufficient to conclude that it is "extremely unlikely" to "get back more than the involuntary fare recalculation".

CWS quotes 9a3) of the TandCs. 9a3, however, is primarily targeted at scheduled changes and cancellations. It is by no means clear that it is meant to apply in the case of the cancellation of a reservation due to the negligence of a BA employee. Even if were interpreted to apply to this situation, it is also open to discussion whether such a clause, if it does indeed cover such a situation, constitutes an unfair contract term. It seems to me, prima facie, that there would be a good argument for considering such a clause "unfair" within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

I would also urge caution before taking Often1's categorical assertions as the gospel truth. Some posters may not be quite as knowledgeable as they think they are or, at any rate, let out to be.

Conversely, the OP would be well advised to remain cautious before coming to definitive conclusions.

Most of us could do with a truckload of humility and not lose sight from the fact that knowledge starts with awareness of the limits of one's own knowledge.

20Rothmans

@DrSE
I look forward to seeing what comes of this. German law's quite alien to those of us in the UK (breaking things accidentally in shops and so forth).

My German is reasonable, but IANAL. Your experience will be valuable to those of us who fly ex-DE. Others (myself included) here have been downgraded, and it's never enjoyable.

DrSE

Yes I will share the outcome if possible!
However I want to stress one more time that im my opinion this is less a downgrade or EU-Regulation case but more one of contract law.

Globaliser

I think that we may need to be careful here. BA cancelled the OP's reservation, but that is not the same as cancelling his ticket. I'm far from confident that the ticket was cancelled; and even if it was, that wouldn't necessarily mean that the provisions of the contract providing for what would happen in this situation wouldn't remain applicable.

At any rate, there is one basic thing that needs stressing: having either a ticket or a reservation in a particular cabin on a particular flight does not give you a guarantee of flying on that flight, or in the cabin in which the reservation has been made. That doesn't mean that the passenger is without remedies, but it always helps to have a proper perspective on what your basic contractual rights are.

DrSE

Of course I don’t have the right to fly on this flight or cabin which I could enforce by police but I have a contract.