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Involuntary denial of boarding, please help

Involuntary denial of boarding, please help

Old May 10, 2018, 1:59 am
  #361  
 
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Originally Posted by Deniedboardinghelp
Another quick update: I managed to speak to someone on the phone from customer relations who was very understanding and reassured me that the case definitely hasn't been closed. In fact it has been escalated and they are waiting for a response from their legal department, which they are now chasing up and have asked me to submit receipts for expenses.

I know some of you think my gentle stance is misplaced and I do appreciate all the advice (from people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself), but I am going to allow BA a bit more time to make this right.
So basically the usual BA tactic - the person on the phone said what you wanted to hear and what was required to get you off the line. Until you chase again next time you won't hear a dicky bird. Of course BA likes you to do all the chasing as the chances are at some stage you will get fed up and throw in the towel.

In my view NWIFlyer has given a realistic assessment above, really the time has arrived for you to either grab the bull by the horns or just move on with your life. You have now experienced the modern BA and the escalation to their legal department isn't exactly promising as saving BA money will be more important than any recompense.
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Old May 10, 2018, 2:27 am
  #362  
 
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Originally Posted by Deniedboardinghelp


Are crew not really supposed to do this then? In my experience the crew always proactively offer to put my bag in the overhead or take it out for me.
In theory they are forbidden but IME staff proactively help anyone who needs assistance
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Old May 18, 2018, 5:44 pm
  #363  
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This has gone quiet. I wonder if the legal team got to the OP with a settlement under NDA?
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Old May 20, 2018, 3:43 am
  #364  
 
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I have just come across this thread, and having ploughed through all 25 pages I have been horrified at the uncaring and, to my mind, commercially crass manner in which BA has behaved. I was hoping that, having got to the final page, I would have learned that BA had, in the end, done the right thing - apologised profusely and offered full restitution to the OP. But no!

I suppose there are a number of possible reasons for the lack of updates: firstly, that the OP has decided that it is just not worth the mental stress of continuing to engage with a heartless corporation, who it has been suggested many times in this thread, are only inclined to do the right thing when faced with potential legal action. The second possibility is that BA has finally and meaningfully engaged with the OP, and while discussions are ongoing, the OP has chosen not to update followers of this thread on the situation; although I think she could, in that scenario, advise us of that basic fact.The third possibility could be, as @sxc has suggested, that BA have already settled under an NDA. Could someone who knows about such things, confirm (or otherwise) my belief that if the OP has reached a settlement with BA which she has agreed will be bound by a NDA, she may not even disclose that raw fact.There may be other reasons for the lack of updates, but it would be helpful, assuming no settlement under an NDA has been reached, if the OP could put her head above the parapet once more, so that if she does not we may know that settlement has been reached.
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Old May 20, 2018, 4:41 am
  #365  
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Hi, I will try to do a proper update later on as I know that people here care and are interested in the outcome.
I am sorry I didn't update sooner, this is because if a combination of reasons: I have been quite seriously ill lately and have been busy dealing with hospitals etc. instead; I have felt quite depressed about this whole saga and even typing out a simple message reminds me of that; and lastly (but not leastly) BA have finally managed to destroy my belief in the goodness of humanity.

Clearly any hopes I had that BA would want to sort this out with a minimum of fuss and cost were ridiculously naive. They have made it very clear that they want any resolution to this saga to be as long, complicated, stresssful and expensive as possible. To cut a long story short, basically BA have said that they would rather deal with thus through the CAA, DOT and EHRC. This seems a bizarre choice commercially to me as if they were willing to just apologise and maybe offer the minimum compensation for the delay I probably would have accepted that (I have a very forgiving nature). The legal route will clearly cost them a lot more whatever the outcome. Their position is that by their reading of the regulations I fall between the different criteria for statutory compensation. (I don't agree with this having read the published guidance on the regulations and various case law).

They don't seem to deny that they have broken various parts of EC261 and EC1107 and U.K. And US access to transport regulation, but they have explained to me that these breaches don't result in statutory compensation to me (instead there are various fines and action against the airline).
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Old May 20, 2018, 5:30 am
  #366  
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There's no point trying to appeal to BA's better nature on this. It's a corporation, and doesn't have one.

It makes perfect sense for them to do this commercially - clearly the more stressful and long-winded they make this for you the less chance there is that any of this will end up in the hands of the regulators who do have the power to take these actions and levy fines. They basically want you to give up and go away.

Follow the advice given earlier, detach yourself from this personally, forget about dealing with BA directly any further. The time is now to clinically play hardball with them, and use any and all avenues that are available that make life as difficult for them as possible.
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Old May 20, 2018, 5:58 am
  #367  
 
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Bloody disgrace.
It'll make no difference to BA but on principle, I've decided to make future bookings on non-oneworld airlines until the OP gets a satisfactory resolution to this.
I sympathise with the problem as my daughter is disabled.
OP has been clear from the outset that she wasn't being unreasonable and just wanted an apology and to be treated with respect. That is clearly beyond BA and frankly, they don't deserve my custom.
It would be nice if others did this if we could quantify the financial impact on BA. it's the only thing Walsh and Cruz seem to understand.
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Old May 20, 2018, 6:50 am
  #368  
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Originally Posted by Deniedboardinghelp
....Clearly any hopes I had that BA would want to sort this out with a minimum of fuss and cost were ridiculously naive. ...
Now it's me clutching at straws, but not in anyway to exculpate British Airways for the crass way they handled the situation at its inception and over subsequent weeks, but rather to attempt to divine an explanation for their current extraordinary approach to the OP's complaint.

It could be that they feel they've managed to engineer themselves into a sensitive area and a situation which falls between regulatory stools. There could be some anxiety that even after settling the matter in a way satisfactory to the OP, some authority could come back to bite them. This would explain why they are unwilling to talk further with the complainant, preferring to deal formally with the bodies that regulate their actions.
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Old May 20, 2018, 7:23 am
  #369  
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This is the unfortunate reality of running a business in a highly-regulated space affecting multiple regulators, e.g. US and UK.

For the same reasons that people often come to FT wondering why a hotel did not siply apologize and comp a night at the hotel for some minor injury, hotels would say that it is better to sustain the occasional loss than to admit fault and risk the one crazy person who sues and obtains a lot more. Thus, everybody gets the same treatment.

The people handling this issue at BA are low-level regulatory paralegal types. They manage risk according to standards they are provided. They are neither heartless nor uncaring. They simply have instructions.

While it is true that OP may now file various complaints and legal actions and that those will likely cost BA more than resolving this with OP directly, BA looks at the transport of millions of passengers a year and simply builds risk into its model. OP may be persistent and act. But, for every OP, there are however many more or who do nothing even if they first complain. Over time, the law of averages cuts heavily in BA's favor.

For example, there was an academic study several years ago which suggested that less than 2% of likely valid EC 261/2004 compensation and refund requests were ever even made in the first place. That number drops off as rounds of denial continue.

I agree that at this point, OP should cease discussion with BA and make a decision. Either drop it and move on or file complaints on both sides of the Pond and pursue an MCOL complaint for the various compensations and refunds due.
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Old May 20, 2018, 7:37 am
  #370  
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Originally Posted by Often1
This is the unfortunate reality of running a business in a highly-regulated space affecting multiple regulators, e.g. US and UK.

For the same reasons that people often come to FT wondering why a hotel did not siply apologize and comp a night at the hotel for some minor injury, hotels would say that it is better to sustain the occasional loss than to admit fault and risk the one crazy person who sues and obtains a lot more.
This is nonsense on stilts.The idea that making a reasonable commercial gesture towards a disabled passenger in the position of the OP is an admission of liability likely to give rise to huge future costs to BA in other cases initiated by "crazy persons" and that this explains that BA cannot possibly act differently is laughable.
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Old May 20, 2018, 9:14 am
  #371  
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Originally Posted by gcuk
It would be nice if others did this if we could quantify the financial impact on BA. it's the only thing Walsh and Cruz seem to understand.
I don't make decisions like that based on someone else's experience posted to an internet discussion forum. If I had I'd have missed out flying with many airlines.
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Old May 20, 2018, 10:27 am
  #372  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
This is nonsense on stilts.The idea that making a reasonable commercial gesture towards a disabled passenger in the position of the OP is an admission of liability likely to give rise to huge future costs to BA in other cases initiated by "crazy persons" and that this explains that BA cannot possibly act differently is laughable.
Especially as BA could settle without admitting guilt, and an apology isn't admissible in court.
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Old May 20, 2018, 10:52 am
  #373  
 
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Originally Posted by HIDDY
I don't make decisions like that based on someone else's experience posted to an internet discussion forum. If I had I'd have missed out flying with many airlines.
Perhaps you are not disabled? Many disabled people go to great lengths to minimise their risks of something like this happening to them, out of sheer necessity.
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Old May 26, 2018, 8:56 am
  #374  
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Originally Posted by Often1
it is better to sustain the occasional loss than to admit fault and risk the one crazy person who sues and obtains a lot more. Thus, everybody gets the same treatment.
I thought this myth had long gone away? An apology and an offer to make amends is not itself an admission of negligence.

A more likely explanation is that IAG is structured such that whoever decided that it is better to deny these claims is not the same person who has to explain why they are being sued by customers or fined by regulators.
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Old May 28, 2018, 6:06 pm
  #375  
 
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Originally Posted by V10
There's no point trying to appeal to BA's better nature on this. It's a corporation, and doesn't have one.

It makes perfect sense for them to do this commercially - clearly the more stressful and long-winded they make this for you the less chance there is that any of this will end up in the hands of the regulators who do have the power to take these actions and levy fines. They basically want you to give up and go away.

Follow the advice given earlier, detach yourself from this personally, forget about dealing with BA directly any further. The time is now to clinically play hardball with them, and use any and all avenues that are available that make life as difficult for them as possible.
+1

You bring an old country saying to mind " A race horse needs a flick of a finger, a donkey needs a two by four" !
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