Stuck at Heathrow-avios flight cancelled
Mar 29, 2018, 2:43 pm
#31
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By its terms, the BA COC does not apply to ticket. Rather the AY COC applies and the AY COC has no remotely similar provision. In fact, the BA provision quoted in this thread is unique to BA among major carriers worldwide. Thus, OP's partner is at the mercy of AY for the no show and the AY COC and fare rules of the ticket apply to the consequences of a no show.
To be clear, Section 2a of the BA COC expressly state:
These conditions of carriage will apply to all flights we operate under the BA airline designator code and to any case where we have a legal liability to you in relation to your flight.
BA does not operate AY and it has no other known legal liability here.
To be clear, Section 2a of the BA COC expressly state:
These conditions of carriage will apply to all flights we operate under the BA airline designator code and to any case where we have a legal liability to you in relation to your flight.
BA does not operate AY and it has no other known legal liability here.
For an AY flight number, then AY's CoC obviously apply.
However, if you go to the CoC page on ba.com, you will find the following, which seems to me to make the position clear for a BA flight number on an AY-operated flight:-
Mar 29, 2018, 3:44 pm
#32
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To be honest I never know who is really responsible (or who would take responsibility) for cross-carrier flights.
Thinking back to my first flirt with flyer talk I had an AA ticket BWI-JFK-LHR-GLA-SYY, but the first flight was cancelled so AA put me on the later BA IAD-LHR flight; on arrival at IAD, BA put me on the earlier IAD-LHR flight. At LHR I made my connection to GLA, but at GLA, with my suitcase sitting on the tarmac, FlyBe noted that my ticket had been cancelled - although actually being there was some proof I had actually been on the incoming flight. On the return, again, all tickets had been cancelled (Indian call centre - 'no sir, you cannot be in Stornoway because you never took the flight' - 'but I am sitting in Stornoway' - 'No sir, you cannot be'... etc), but FlyBe just issued the BPs back to LHR where speaking to BA face-to-face it was sorted (last laugh was with BA/AA though since they cancelled the JFK-BWI return sector!).
Thinking back to my first flirt with flyer talk I had an AA ticket BWI-JFK-LHR-GLA-SYY, but the first flight was cancelled so AA put me on the later BA IAD-LHR flight; on arrival at IAD, BA put me on the earlier IAD-LHR flight. At LHR I made my connection to GLA, but at GLA, with my suitcase sitting on the tarmac, FlyBe noted that my ticket had been cancelled - although actually being there was some proof I had actually been on the incoming flight. On the return, again, all tickets had been cancelled (Indian call centre - 'no sir, you cannot be in Stornoway because you never took the flight' - 'but I am sitting in Stornoway' - 'No sir, you cannot be'... etc), but FlyBe just issued the BPs back to LHR where speaking to BA face-to-face it was sorted (last laugh was with BA/AA though since they cancelled the JFK-BWI return sector!).
That is not the case of this OP's partner. The partner simply missed his flight.
In neither case is this a matter of blame. Whether weather or mechanical, AA was responsible for getting OP to SYY. As to OP's partner, whether the partner ought to have allowed more time given the holiday or a boulder fell across the road is irrelevant.
Where I suspect that OP's partner will find a hard rejection is that the question of whether his insurance covers the reroute cost of GBP 1,400 or some part of that, will come down to whether bad traffic on the eve of a holiday is a claimable incident.
Mar 29, 2018, 4:15 pm
#34
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I am so, so, so disappointed in BA and their complete lack of interest in their customers. Finnair said they didn't want anything to do with it as it was a BA Avios booking - then BA said they would have rebooked him but it was a Finnair flight so they refused. Gold line refused any help at all, and when escalated refused to do anything and was uninterested. No one seems to know what happens or cares when problems occur. Sigh.
When you missed the AY flight, AY quite correctly referred you back to your ticketing Agent ( BA in this case)
Some airlines ( such as AA ) for an award booking would allow for miles to be redeposited ( for a fee ) or rebook onto another flight with award availabiltiy with no cost. BA's terms , however, iirc do not allow for this
Whether the agent had any interest in the specific situation, though I would hope that the person would be disinterested rather than uninterested, it looks like the agent simply acted in accordance with the rules of the award booking
Having an expectation that an airline will ignore the rules of the ticket risks leading to disappointment
Mar 29, 2018, 5:04 pm
#35
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Thank you everyone for the help - all really very much appreciated.
We've snagged a flight tomorrow, again AY, cheapest J I could find at Ł1400 to BKK (and then a cheap hop to USM from there). We will file insurance claims with the respective insurers and hope for the best.
I am so, so, so disappointed in BA and their complete lack of interest in their customers. Finnair said they didn't want anything to do with it as it was a BA Avios booking - then BA said they would have rebooked him but it was a Finnair flight so they refused. Gold line refused any help at all, and when escalated refused to do anything and was uninterested. No one seems to know what happens or cares when problems occur. Sigh.
Anyway. Gotta not let it spoil the holiday. Thanks agin for the help.
We've snagged a flight tomorrow, again AY, cheapest J I could find at Ł1400 to BKK (and then a cheap hop to USM from there). We will file insurance claims with the respective insurers and hope for the best.
I am so, so, so disappointed in BA and their complete lack of interest in their customers. Finnair said they didn't want anything to do with it as it was a BA Avios booking - then BA said they would have rebooked him but it was a Finnair flight so they refused. Gold line refused any help at all, and when escalated refused to do anything and was uninterested. No one seems to know what happens or cares when problems occur. Sigh.
Anyway. Gotta not let it spoil the holiday. Thanks agin for the help.
Glad you got some sort of resolution and hope the insurance covers at least some of it and yiu can enjoy your holiday.
Mar 29, 2018, 5:20 pm
#36
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That is in IRROPS. On the day of travel, it is the responsibility of the carrier causing a delay to handle the reroute. In your case, you were ticketed to fly on an AA-operated flight BWI-JFK. When that flight was cancelled, it became AA's responsibility to reroute OP to his final ticketed destination, e.g. SYY.
.
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Mar 29, 2018, 6:06 pm
#37
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To be fair, BA just enforced the rules and that's what comes with award tickets. I am inclined to think they might have been more lenient had this been a BA ticket for a BA operated flight. Other posters also noted that the LHR-HEL services on AY were full, and I see that the HEL-SIN flight on Mar 30th is rammed in Y and only 4 seats are on sale in J... I think that expecting BA to re-route on the direct flight or issue a fresh ticket in a rev bucket on a super-busy AY service are both unreasonable requests/expectations.
At the end of the day we all have a choice when buying tickets: award tickets through BAEC obviously offer better value than a revenue ticket and yet amazing flexibility, but the drawback is that you lose such flexibility 24 hours prior to departure... Demanding to be accommodated if something goes wrong (due to poor planning on your partner's own's part - let's face it) is the proverbial case of wanting to have the cake and eat it too...!
Anyways... enjoy Koh Samui and don't let this spoil the vacation! I am sure after the first dip in the water all will be forgotten (as it should).
Mar 29, 2018, 7:30 pm
#38
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I never leave anything to chance with holiday time travel, I usually take the normal travel time and multiply it by 2 as the buffer, i.e. if it takes me 1 hour to get to the airport then during holidays it will take me 3 hours (1 + 1 x 2).
What is unclear to me is how BA interpreted it's liability with regard to refunding the Avios for the no-show due to an "Event Beyond Your Control" (even if a penalty/fee is applicable for this). The Avios are just forfeited and that's the end of it, there's no way to pay a no-show and re-booking fee to save them? I was thinking of moving to BA from AA this year as I will have more EU travel for work, but given how they treat no-shows, it seems I may need to reconsider going for a different OW FFP.
What is unclear to me is how BA interpreted it's liability with regard to refunding the Avios for the no-show due to an "Event Beyond Your Control" (even if a penalty/fee is applicable for this). The Avios are just forfeited and that's the end of it, there's no way to pay a no-show and re-booking fee to save them? I was thinking of moving to BA from AA this year as I will have more EU travel for work, but given how they treat no-shows, it seems I may need to reconsider going for a different OW FFP.
Mar 29, 2018, 9:57 pm
#39
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Very sorry for the OP's partner. To clarify, there are three actors mentioned in this thread:
- BA: totally irrelevant
- BAEC: potentially relevant in terms of ticket changes
- AY: potentially relevant in terms of missed departure
If BAEC had been contacted before, they might have allowed a rebooking/ticket changes, but their rule is, at least theoretically that this should have occurred 24 hours before the first flight on the itinerary and certainly they won't do anything after the passenger is a no show as they then won't get the value back from AY anyway.
AY could have decided to be generous but to my knowledge, they do not have a 'flat tire' rule. It is also worth noting that whilst some airlines can have dispositions in place in case of significant problem regarding access to the airport, in my experience, this would need to be a pretty 'obvious' case to stand a chance, ie: I left home 4 hours before departure for a trip to the airport which normally takes 1/2 hour but there was a fire alert and our road was completely closed off for 3 hours = likely to work; I left home 2 hours before departure and the trip normally takes 30-60 minutes but there was a lot of traffic so this time it took 90 minutes: very unlikely to work.
Travel insurance is usually more lenient (not always) but note that they will only help with actual costs (which is the case here with the rebooking).
In short, it sounds like an extremely unfortunate incident, but in all likelihood, while the airline could have been 'nice' they were certainly not obliged to and it seems that they merely applied their rules. The fact that it was a mileage ticket probably played a part in the lack of sympathy and it is worth remembering, when we travel on those, that many airlines are indeed likely to stick to the rule even more strictly than they are on many revenue tickets. The same actually applies to codeshare revenue tickets (note: the point above that typically, avios redemption only book into the prime operator is correct) which also often result in more rigidity on the part of the operating career in my view as you are not really "their" client and they often tend to feel less inclined to help.
I really hope that the OP's partner still enjoy the holiday despite this very hectic start...
- BA: totally irrelevant
- BAEC: potentially relevant in terms of ticket changes
- AY: potentially relevant in terms of missed departure
If BAEC had been contacted before, they might have allowed a rebooking/ticket changes, but their rule is, at least theoretically that this should have occurred 24 hours before the first flight on the itinerary and certainly they won't do anything after the passenger is a no show as they then won't get the value back from AY anyway.
AY could have decided to be generous but to my knowledge, they do not have a 'flat tire' rule. It is also worth noting that whilst some airlines can have dispositions in place in case of significant problem regarding access to the airport, in my experience, this would need to be a pretty 'obvious' case to stand a chance, ie: I left home 4 hours before departure for a trip to the airport which normally takes 1/2 hour but there was a fire alert and our road was completely closed off for 3 hours = likely to work; I left home 2 hours before departure and the trip normally takes 30-60 minutes but there was a lot of traffic so this time it took 90 minutes: very unlikely to work.
Travel insurance is usually more lenient (not always) but note that they will only help with actual costs (which is the case here with the rebooking).
In short, it sounds like an extremely unfortunate incident, but in all likelihood, while the airline could have been 'nice' they were certainly not obliged to and it seems that they merely applied their rules. The fact that it was a mileage ticket probably played a part in the lack of sympathy and it is worth remembering, when we travel on those, that many airlines are indeed likely to stick to the rule even more strictly than they are on many revenue tickets. The same actually applies to codeshare revenue tickets (note: the point above that typically, avios redemption only book into the prime operator is correct) which also often result in more rigidity on the part of the operating career in my view as you are not really "their" client and they often tend to feel less inclined to help.
I really hope that the OP's partner still enjoy the holiday despite this very hectic start...
Mar 29, 2018, 10:33 pm
#40
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Part of the reason I do business with AA and bank miles with AAdvantage...They tend to use a fairly liberal “flat tire” rule. I’ve missed a few flights, both revenue and award, with AA as the ticketing carrier and they have helped me salvage things in situations like this. There are many stories of US carriers rebooking onto their own metal for missed partner flights where they are the ticketing carrier. It always puzzles me that people are so resigned to accept crummy treatment, part of the reason i get 001 stock even if I am on BA metal.
Mar 29, 2018, 10:55 pm
#41
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AY can be flexible, I missed the first flight (through my own fault just cut it too tight) on a 3 flight segment booked through AY. When I approached the service desk and said I missed my flight is there any way I can pay a fee to save the rest if the trip, they said Don't worry there is another plane you can get before your second flight. They provided to make the changes free of charge.
A lot can be how busy they are plus how you speak to them. To the OP I'm sorry about the situation but in this case blaming BA (despite them often being a cause) is unwarranted. It is as if you are blame g Flight Centre just because they sold you the ticket, once you miss the flight no ticket agent will say "tell you what, despite not causing the issue we will pay to fix the situation". I'm afraid this is a travel insurance situation and ensuring you have adequate cover is essential.
A lot can be how busy they are plus how you speak to them. To the OP I'm sorry about the situation but in this case blaming BA (despite them often being a cause) is unwarranted. It is as if you are blame g Flight Centre just because they sold you the ticket, once you miss the flight no ticket agent will say "tell you what, despite not causing the issue we will pay to fix the situation". I'm afraid this is a travel insurance situation and ensuring you have adequate cover is essential.
Mar 30, 2018, 3:11 am
#42
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Part of the reason I do business with AA and bank miles with AAdvantage...They tend to use a fairly liberal “flat tire” rule. I’ve missed a few flights, both revenue and award, with AA as the ticketing carrier and they have helped me salvage things in situations like this. There are many stories of US carriers rebooking onto their own metal for missed partner flights where they are the ticketing carrier. It always puzzles me that people are so resigned to accept crummy treatment, part of the reason i get 001 stock even if I am on BA metal.
Mar 30, 2018, 4:19 am
#44
Join Date: May 2010
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AY can be flexible, I missed the first flight (through my own fault just cut it too tight) on a 3 flight segment booked through AY. When I approached the service desk and said I missed my flight is there any way I can pay a fee to save the rest if the trip, they said Don't worry there is another plane you can get before your second flight. They provided to make the changes free of charge.
A lot can be how busy they are plus how you speak to them. To the OP I'm sorry about the situation but in this case blaming BA (despite them often being a cause) is unwarranted. It is as if you are blame g Flight Centre just because they sold you the ticket, once you miss the flight no ticket agent will say "tell you what, despite not causing the issue we will pay to fix the situation". I'm afraid this is a travel insurance situation and ensuring you have adequate cover is essential.
A lot can be how busy they are plus how you speak to them. To the OP I'm sorry about the situation but in this case blaming BA (despite them often being a cause) is unwarranted. It is as if you are blame g Flight Centre just because they sold you the ticket, once you miss the flight no ticket agent will say "tell you what, despite not causing the issue we will pay to fix the situation". I'm afraid this is a travel insurance situation and ensuring you have adequate cover is essential.
Mar 30, 2018, 5:02 am
#45
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Thank you everyone for the help - all really very much appreciated.
We've snagged a flight tomorrow, again AY, cheapest J I could find at Ł1400 to BKK (and then a cheap hop to USM from there). We will file insurance claims with the respective insurers and hope for the best.
I am so, so, so disappointed in BA and their complete lack of interest in their customers. Finnair said they didn't want anything to do with it as it was a BA Avios booking - then BA said they would have rebooked him but it was a Finnair flight so they refused. Gold line refused any help at all, and when escalated refused to do anything and was uninterested. No one seems to know what happens or cares when problems occur. Sigh.
Anyway. Gotta not let it spoil the holiday. Thanks agin for the help.
We've snagged a flight tomorrow, again AY, cheapest J I could find at Ł1400 to BKK (and then a cheap hop to USM from there). We will file insurance claims with the respective insurers and hope for the best.
I am so, so, so disappointed in BA and their complete lack of interest in their customers. Finnair said they didn't want anything to do with it as it was a BA Avios booking - then BA said they would have rebooked him but it was a Finnair flight so they refused. Gold line refused any help at all, and when escalated refused to do anything and was uninterested. No one seems to know what happens or cares when problems occur. Sigh.
Anyway. Gotta not let it spoil the holiday. Thanks agin for the help.
The traveller used Avios to purchase a flight on AY. He then checked in late for the flight so was refused transportation.
In exceptional circumstances you would hope that the airline might show flexibility, notwithstanding the ticket conditions, however Easter is known to be a travel 'peak' and therefore carries additional risks.
A job for your travel insurer I would say.