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Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

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Old Jul 20, 18, 10:26 am
  #301  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post

There are, of course, occasions where there are different incentives. A startup may have a brilliant future and an employee a brilliant future as well, but the startup lacks cash and therefore may do all it can to save cash. But, the employee -- perhaps with stock options or orther incentives -- resigns himself to steerage in return for future riches. But, that is not the case for most people and only a small subset.
Yes. I work at a large, publicly traded technology company. I know the company can afford to fly me J--because I manage a budget and I see the numbers. If I felt the company couldn't afford it, I'd be much more flexible.
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Old Jul 20, 18, 10:40 am
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Yes I would and I have. If I am offered a job that requires major travel then to me which cabin I sit in is part of the salary/package negotiation. My travel necessitates early am arrivals then straight to meetings, it involves 24 hour turns and a lot of time on an aircraft. I'm not doing in in Y.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 5:46 am
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Change to corporate policy, what to do?

My companies previous policy (for which I have worked for over 10 years) was for PE for long haul flying, it has now moved to a policy which is all economy and cost is the main decision factor.

I am expected to fly overnight to a destination that is roughly 12 hours away, have one night there and a meeting and then fly back overnight (so 2 12 hour trips in economy, overnight, in 60ish hours)

To complicate things I am on the large side, and have high blood pressure (well controlled with a low dose of pills) and borderline diabetic. (Yes - I realise I should do things with my lifestyle but that's complicated right now and this policy has been foisted on me).

Any ideas what I should do? Ask my GPs opinion on whether it is safe or just put up with it?
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Old Aug 6, 18, 5:52 am
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There is a genuine Health and Safety issue with that sort of schedule. I would seek Medical advice. Many GPs are not equipped to give that sort of advice.
What advice do the CAA/FAA Medics give to long haul pilots and their schedules?
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Old Aug 6, 18, 6:22 am
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I think my company has the best solution.

economy for short haul (I do business with a FT trick and no one bats an eyelid) and WT+ if it is a certain bit more than Y.

However, those are the rules. The reality is...... every year I get an annual budget. Donít book club but you can upgrade with miles. Book anything else but try and get value. Oh and donít be a prat or take the piss.

otherwise suit yourself. Oh and if you travel at the weekend, stick a couple of days off in you diary when you want. No approval required. Just donít take the piss.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 6:27 am
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I think there's a few approaches - but the very first step is to work out what you want.

Do you want the old policy back - just for you? Do you want to stop travelling? Do you want cash instead? Would you resign rather than fly Y? The outcome is important here.

If you're willing to put up with it and believe you can manage the travel schedule etc with your health - I'd put your head down and get on with it. Anything else is going to be seen as being difficult by the employer.

But if you want to fight it and put up with the label 'difficult'...

I'd actually start with your employer (go to HR - not your boss) - explain the situation, explain the medical situation and say "Look - this was ok in premium eco because I could stretch/walk/whatever - and that's not possible in economy and I'm worried for my health". That *should* set HR alarm bells ringing. Getting informed about a potential health impact and ignoring it would be a disaster if anything happened to you. Make *sure* it's documented - by you in a follow up email if required ("Just to confirm our conversation ..."). But also make sure it's right - don't go in and say "I get a migraine in economy" if you don't - the worry has to be real.

They might insist on a medical letter - and you can then explore that angle.

The outcome of this might be that they give you an exception from the policy. But I'd guess the more likely outcome would be an attempt to remove you from the need to travel (with them thinking "well - if he's that bad he shouldn't be on a plane anyway") and, honestly, if you were my employee - that'd be my angle - after all - this might not stop here and you might be back next month asking for business class because something happened to your back/leg/head/whatever.

Remember - companies, in that situation, are likely to be thinking "what about the tribunal" in the back of their minds (they shouldn't - but they will). But that means they'll tend to go procedural to ensure they tick all the boxes.

Now - there's another option - IANAL but I'd hazard a guess that if you're Europe based - that'd be a breach of the working time directive (given the ruling on Tyco). Travel time should be included as working time, so if you do 24 hours in the sky + 8 hours working you're at 32 already - you'd only need 2 more days in the office/online that week and you're over. I'd certainly have a crack at the argument if they health angle didn't work.

Most UK companies put some generic "I opt out" clause in your contract - but you're more than welcome to opt back in. Generally would put the cat amongst the pigeons though. But again - unless your travel is critical - I'd suspect they would come and say "well look - if you're not willing/able to do <x> and <x> is the job - we need to find you a different role".

In the grand scheme of things - if you're happy to consider moving on from the company within 12 months - I'd make a bit of a fuss and see what happens.

And to give you two solid examples from my own recent past:
  1. I needed to do a LH - we're normally WTP direct (and book BA), but the prices were bonkers. The only real option was an Air Transat flight with 1 connection in their 'club' (really PE) cabin - it added 6 hours to a 7 hour journey. I said "no" because I'd hurt my back and I wasn't going to do 13 hours on a 7 hour trip (especially without a lounge!) and the trip was put off. The company understood and re-worked the schedules.
  2. The company also attempted to put an 'all economy' policy in place. I simply said "Look - I travel enough and I don't need to spend those hours cramped up". There was a bunch of back and forth (including comments about being well paid enough to put up with whatever was thrown at me) which ended with an email from me saying "ok - if that's the policy - that's fine - but we either find me another role that doesn't involve the travel or I guess we're parting ways". Since there wasn't another role for me to do and finding a replacement would be tricky - the policy was amended with an exception clause which myself and (now) the CEO make use of.
However, both incidents have led to me being seen as awkward and stubborn - and my 'star' in the company faded a bit because of it.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 6:47 am
  #307  
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Originally Posted by waldorfmuppet View Post
Any ideas what I should do? Ask my GPs opinion on whether it is safe or just put up with it?
Do you think the company gives a monkeys if you die? Not really (let's be honest, would they even let everyone have the day off to go to your funeral? Unlikely.). Do you give a monkeys if you die? Yes. As there is a clear divergence of opinion here I would not put up with it.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 6:52 am
  #308  
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Start looking for alternative employment, probably.

HR is there to safeguard the employer interests, not those of the OP. Unless you're very sure that your position is bordering on the irreplacable, they're unlikely to entertain an exception on health grounds and risk similar requests from other employees.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 7:01 am
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Originally Posted by waldorfmuppet View Post
.......................................

To complicate things I am on the large side, and have high blood pressure (well controlled with a low dose of pills) and borderline diabetic. (Yes - I realise I should do things with my lifestyle but that's complicated right now and this policy has been foisted on me).

Any ideas what I should do? Ask my GPs opinion on whether it is safe or just put up with it?
I had a similar itinerary put before me some years ago - I just refused citing 'personal circumstances' , played the game apologised profusely, let them know I was sure I would be able to go another time - meanwhile my CV was out there and I left not long after. Stand up for yourself
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Old Aug 6, 18, 7:28 am
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If they move to all Y, One option is to calculate the estimated fare difference for the year between Y and PE and negotiate a raise that covers you paying the difference.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 7:30 am
  #311  
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Do you think the company gives a monkeys if you die? Not really (let's be honest, would they even let everyone have the day off to go to your funeral? Unlikely.). Do you give a monkeys if you die? Yes. As there is a clear divergence of opinion here I would not put up with it.
Section 7 of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act, 1974 as amended.
General duties of employees at work.

It shall be the duty of every employee while at work—

(a)to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work; and

(b)as regards any duty or requirement imposed on his employer or any other person by or under any of the relevant statutory provisions, to co-operate with him so far as is necessary to enable that duty or requirement to be performed or complied with.
Breach of the above can attract an unlimited fine, and potential director disqualification. The other thing that has caught out a number of employers recently is that if an employee informs the company that they are travelling against medical advice, they are no longer covered by the company's insurance. One case I'm aware of led to a huge USA medical bill and even larger payment into an underfunded pension scheme being pinned on the employer at zero notice.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 7:35 am
  #312  
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Originally Posted by waldorfmuppet View Post
My companies previous policy (for which I have worked for over 10 years) was for PE for long haul flying, it has now moved to a policy which is all economy and cost is the main decision factor.

I am expected to fly overnight to a destination that is roughly 12 hours away, have one night there and a meeting and then fly back overnight (so 2 12 hour trips in economy, overnight, in 60ish hours)

To complicate things I am on the large side, and have high blood pressure (well controlled with a low dose of pills) and borderline diabetic. (Yes - I realise I should do things with my lifestyle but that's complicated right now and this policy has been foisted on me).

Any ideas what I should do? Ask my GPs opinion on whether it is safe or just put up with it?
Does your corporate policy permit you to either purchase cheap upgrades with your own money or to buy upgradeable fares and upgrade with (your) miles? If so, investigate how often such upgrades are likely to succeed for your travel patterns and what this strategy would cost you, in money and miles. Do you have flexibility to choose your own flights, so that you can pick ones where you are more likely to get upgrades? I'd start here, and then think about what to do.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 2:00 pm
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Originally Posted by waldorfmuppet View Post
To complicate things I am on the large side, and have high blood pressure (well controlled with a low dose of pills) and borderline diabetic. (Yes - I realise I should do things with my lifestyle but that's complicated right now and this policy has been foisted on me).

Any ideas what I should do? Ask my GPs opinion on whether it is safe or just put up with it?
My company has an all economy policy. However, they are not completely inhumane.

In a case like this, they would never force me to go on a trip like that Ė nobody would question me if I booked a hotel night on both sides of the meeting day.

Furthermore, due to a back issue I cannot sit squeezed into an economy seat for a long period of time. I have a GP letter advising me to travel in PE for flights over two or three hours and we have a procedure where this can be raised with HR which will then put this information on your travel profile. So despite the policy, I have the option to book LH flights in PE Ė but of course still within the company policy of cheapest reasonable flights and preferred carriers.

Definitely worth checking with HR whether a similar option would be available to you, possibly requiring a doctor's letter.
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Old Aug 7, 18, 12:41 pm
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My company has had a "we pay for discount economy and you take care of the rest" policy for over a decade. I travel half a million miles or more a year, but I buy up or upgrade. I get paid well, so I don't see this as a dealbreaker.
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Old Aug 7, 18, 12:49 pm
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That's not a nice schedule. If they absolutely insist on Y, then maybe they can buy an extra seat for you (it's just the fare, no taxes etc), and hopefully use that to get a seat pair (eg, at the rear of plane) to make life a little less unpleasant. Think it's known as a "comfort seat" in US parlance and also EXST I think.

Originally Posted by waldorfmuppet View Post
My companies previous policy (for which I have worked for over 10 years) was for PE for long haul flying, it has now moved to a policy which is all economy and cost is the main decision factor.

I am expected to fly overnight to a destination that is roughly 12 hours away, have one night there and a meeting and then fly back overnight (so 2 12 hour trips in economy, overnight, in 60ish hours)
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