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Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

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Old Jul 9, 18, 3:19 am
  #256  
 
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Perhaps companies need to develop a more flexible policy according to employee’s differing needs and flexible working arrangements which also fit in with the nature of the business. PE is becoming more available, with United joining the fun and E minus more common with densification and narrow seating.
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Old Jul 9, 18, 3:41 am
  #257  
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Bless. You really believe that? You think someone earning a couple of million dollars a year is doing this?
Aye. The most hypocritical is when you have an all-Y-everybody policy and the board shuttle around on private jet due to "urgent business requirements", except once a year when the CEO has someone take a picture of him in Y on SFO-LAX, MAN-LHR, SIN-KUL or similar.
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Old Jul 9, 18, 3:46 am
  #258  
 
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post


Bless. You really believe that? You think someone earning a couple of million dollars a year is doing this?
Indeed - My rose tinted spectacle view of the 'it applies to everyone' was broken when I spotted an AUP receipt from W to J attached to the top of the CEO's expenses during a meeting in his office.

He might have booked W (our long haul cabin of choice) - but he sure wasn't flying it.

But I do agree - I expect more companies to go W for long haul soon.
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Old Jul 9, 18, 4:09 am
  #259  
 
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There has been good debate in this thread about what is a "normal" travel policy these days. It would be interesting to get/share data, so I've built this survey on travel policies: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QDR389F

After you have filled it in, then you should be able to see the current statistics. When we have enough reponses, I'll update the thread with the results.
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Old Jul 11, 18, 4:24 am
  #260  
 
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Still fewer data points than statistically useful, and warning about sample bias, etc. but early data suggests that (a) Y only polices are not ubiquitous (b) different rules for senior staff are not unusual. Of course, the irritation of hindsight is that I'd have put different questions on the survey if I were doing it again :-) [e.g. asking how many people have to include a Sat night for cost reasons]
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Old Jul 11, 18, 6:42 am
  #261  
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There is no "usual" travel policy and any survey would need to capture sensitive data which one would be mad to supply through a Survey Monkey, FT or similar.

Travel policies are part of the market just like salary and direct benefits and non-benefit perks such as health clubs. In good times when attracting top talent is hard, it may be necessary to pay more. Paying more could include a higher salary, but it could also include F/J travel. The markets are also localized. Thus, what is "normal" for DUB may not be "normal" for LON or HKG.

From the employee perspective, why on earth would one not use market leverage to obtain better salary, benefits and other perks?
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Old Jul 11, 18, 4:53 pm
  #262  
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BA didn't increase the capacity of the J cabins on LON-NYC because of the number of TP runners.

Demand remains very strong.

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
perks such as health clubs.
Is that a gym in disguise?
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Old Jul 11, 18, 5:00 pm
  #263  
 
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I see an all-Y travel policy as like working in Dubai (or wherever). Many people could go and get a 50% pay boost, plus pay no tax on any of it, by offshoring themselves, but even with a month or two off... if you were regularly flying long-haul in Y (which means overnight), it'd be perfectly legitimate to question the appeal of that role compared to others that might offer a better work/life balance. That's not a particularly spoiled or precious world view in my opinion - relatively few people earn as much as they possibly could for their skills and experience, preferring a good location, a good work life balance, a friendly working atmosphere, etc. rather than simply chasing the dollar. Good luck to those who do but a travel policy should be seen as another aspect of that: while anyone can do Y once a year for a course or a family holiday, it's quite another thing to do LHR-HKG in Y, spend two nights at your destination and then do another overnight and be back in the office the same day you land.
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Old Jul 12, 18, 12:42 am
  #264  
 
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I turned down a global role for a large multinational as an expert in sales a year ago. The role required supporting $100m sales across the globe as an functional and delivery expert. When asked about the travel frequency they said every week and sometimes twice a week. I declined to interview when the confirmed the travel policy was only Y and that it would be expected to be in US then Asia on back to back weeks.
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Old Jul 12, 18, 5:09 am
  #265  
 
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I have a job that expects long haul travel every quarter or so on average, usually for 5 days at a time but sometimes only for 2-3 days. It's a strict Y only policy. This is a US based technology company.

Except... nobody really knows how strict the policy is. People travel in a mixture of classes, sometimes paying out of pocket, sometimes (we suspect) not. There is (from word of mouth with an HR bod) a policy that allows managers to pay for premium economy at their discretion, but this is not written into the policy that's visible to everyone (there is a special manager's only part of our intranet that presumably says more). So overall there's an atmosphere of suspicion that some of us are getting short changed.

There is little impetus for change, because most of our senior leadership mostly travel domestic US, where the difference between Y and J is much less significant. Then they build up sufficient status/miles domestically that when they travel internationally they can usually get a free upgrade.

Anyway... I have an interview today with a financial firm that does provide J travel, so might be voting with my feet :-)
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Old Jul 12, 18, 7:53 am
  #266  
 
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Originally Posted by technical_bob View Post
Anyway... I have an interview today with a financial firm that does provide J travel, so might be voting with my feet :-)
Goodluck
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Old Jul 12, 18, 8:25 am
  #267  
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Exclamation I Did Once (Face To Face)...

Many years ago, flew to a final job interview at Houston Hobby Airport to meet with the CEO & SVP of the company that wanted to hire me. The interview was going really well, until I asked about their travel policy. They required all employees to fly Southwest exclusively. I was based in DFW, I told them that American flew to everywhere I would need to go directly vs. Southworst Airlines that didn't due to the Wright Amendment at the time. They said that they considered Southwest to be "Their Company Plane", and that there were no exceptions to this policy. I politely stood up, shook their hands, and thanked them for their time and started walking towards the American gates to get a flight back to Dallas. They quickly applauded my negotiation tactic of playing hardball & saw it as a way to get more $ out of them on my base salary. I looked back at them & assured them that I was not negotiating. I simply would not fly 50,000 miles a year on Southwest. They literally stood there with their mouths hanging open as I walked away.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 6:18 am
  #268  
 
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Thanks to all who filled in the survey so far. We now have 55 replies, which is getting enough for the statistics to start making sense (albeit still huge issues with sample bias).

Some calculations that can be made from the data:
1) only 18% of respondents have a true "all Y" travel policy (only Y is allowed, for any distance, any staff).
2) 35% have a Y only policy for junior staff, but allow senior staff to travel W or J.
3) 69% of cases allow at least some staff (senior or all) to travel in J or F for longer flights.
4) 38% allow all staff to travel in J or F for longer flights
5) 7% have a generous "all J/F" policy (ie J/F for all staff, all distances)
6) W is the longhaul policy for some staff for longer flights in 18% of responses

This suggests that travel policies with some element of J are still fairly common, whilst Y-only policies are a decent fraction but aren't the dominant case.

(If you fill in the survey you automatically get shown a summary of the actual data collected so far).

Some observations from the comments:
- several companies use distance in miles rather than duration in hours to determine a "long flight" to qualify for the higher class
- a small number of companies have a budget based system, where the traveller books whatever they want/can, against a fixed budget for a given route, or where the traveller gets a personal share of any saving for not booking J, etc.

Any common themes on which sectors have the best/worst policies?
- IT/software seems to be the worst sector, with lots of "all Y" policies (although a small number of replies have good J policies).
- law, finance, manufacturing, oil, pharma seem to be the best sectors (J policies are the norm).
- consulting is highly variable, several having "Y only" and several having some form of "J allowed".
- some universities have a "Y only" policy, but W for long flights is common, and even J for senior staff (profs?) in some cases.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 6:37 am
  #269  
 
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Originally Posted by NorthUistFlyer View Post
... I declined to interview when the confirmed the travel policy was only Y and that it would be expected to be in US then Asia on back to back weeks.
That sounds like there could be serious health consequences in certain situations, I’m surprised that they may have not checked that with their lawyers.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 9:39 am
  #270  
 
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My company recently changed from Y only for everything, to now allowing W for long haul (defined as 6hrs+) for managers. VPs get the same deal (all Y shorthaul) except W now becomes J for them.
I've done more than my share of longhaul Y back in the day and was one of those who vigorously complained. Eventually they listened.

Side benefit of being a gold in W, is the frequency of upgrades has increased rather nicely Long may it continue!
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