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Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

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Old Mar 3, 18, 2:59 pm
  #151  
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Originally Posted by jbfield View Post
I agree with this point, but I suppose its a bit like having decided its a job you want and can do (based on instincts or facts), asking oneself whether the practicalities would work, e.g. great job but if it had a 3 hr commute to work and 3hr commute back from work everyday, would you still have the energy to sustain.
I think that in my case, precisely, if I knew that there was a three hour commute to work and back and that it was in a place where I did not want to move, my instinct would tell me, beyond doubt, to forget it however wonderful the job. In fact, this is a situation in which I have been, twice in recent years and however I might try to rationally think about how great the two jobs were on paper (and that I was having things I was finding very frustrating with my job), my guts was telling me "no way" in no uncertain terms.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by TravellerFrequently View Post
On a few recent work trips to FRA and LIN, I have paid to upgrade but it changed the flexibility of the ticket and luckily it was not an issue.
That's the thing isn't it? If the office has sent you out out the crappiest economy ticket, they'll pick up the pieces. If something goes TU on your ticket, you're on your own.

It's a calculated risk of upgrading that I can happily take, but I'm relatively senior. Embarrassing, and potentially dangerous if you run into colleagues on the same flight.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 8:24 pm
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If you "threaten" them with a "No" if they don't pay for "J", you better be prepared to walk out the door. Once you take that position there is no turning back as they likely will recind the employment offer with no further negotiation (I would). Large U.S. companies rarely provide unique "visible" benefits to a specific employee (other than senior Executives) as it negatively affects morale. That's likely why they offered you the $2K bump in salary, instead of the travel class commitment.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 9:11 pm
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Originally Posted by sxc View Post

Google has a policy of a budgeted amount for a particular itinerary and the employee can book their own travel within that confine. They are incentivised for the amount that they don’t spend.
Interesting way to do it.

Company I used to work for would have the sales reps travel out in J and back in Y, while the install techs would do the opposite. We actually had the data to prove it improved retention among each group.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 9:17 pm
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Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
But why would you see someone as 'needy' if they wished to ask about the company travel policy at interview? Likewise, the salary, hours, leave or any aspect of the work. I don't see the difference.
It's not the asking about the general policy per se, it's the ones that think they are valuable enough to *negotiate* an individual policy exception and ask questions about how the vendor side of it works. *They* are the needy ones that should be avoided at all costs. There are very few genuine snowflakes out there.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 9:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
It all depends on the industry and the seniority. OP is someone who is being offered 24K after taxes (let us presume roughly 30K) merely for the asking. This is likely a more senior position than one where someone in HR has much say beyond processing paperwork and the like.

While the junior candidate who seems too needy may well be a problem employee, that is not the case when hiring senior people who have a wealth of experience. If the company is prepared to toss 30K on one issue, either the company is naive or the OP is a sought-after candidate.
And I'll say it again: positions for which rare skill sets are genuinely required are very few and far between. Generic senior execs are dime a dozen globally and I've seldom seen any of them bring much that is genuinely unique to the table.


You are entirely wrong about corporate TA's and their ability to do split billing. While I cannot speak for every branch of every corporate TA, in the US/EU, it is becoming entirely common for employers to require TA's to offer this. From the TA perspective, it is an additional 30-seconds work when ticketing because the corporate and employee credit cards are both on file and it is simply a matter of attributing how much of a ticket goes to which card and that split is established by the employer's policy.
Our experiences with CWT are different then. I find them to be idiots if asked to do much beyond a basic booking. And it still doesn't get you past the tax reconciliation problems that split billing creates, especially when it might be trans-national. UK-US employee/employer usually isn't too bad (although RSU's can be a pain) but for some combinations it can be a fricking nightmare. For example, a UK national of a US company coming out of HK is horrific to try and reconcile as the airfare is a benefit in one country (taxable) and an expense in another and both (if split) in the third.


If one is hiring clerk-typists who can be found for the asking, there is no reason to go out of the way for them. But, when it comes to senior professionals who may offer services which go directly to one's bottom line, acommodating differences is exactly what successful companies can do and routinely do. (Not to suggest that one can't be successful without doing this).
I'm not one to foster the sense of entitlement of "senior professionals" unless they have a genuinely unique skill set that you actually need. And *those* are so rare that you won't be negotiating from a policy anyway. Having an MBA and 20+ years of success behind you does not make you "unique". Not by any stretch of the imagination. There are always hundreds, if not thousands, more of the same "senior professionals" out there. That's not just an opinion: there's solid research behind that idea.
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Old Mar 3, 18, 11:44 pm
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth View Post
And I'll say it again: positions for which rare skill sets are genuinely required are very few and far between. Generic senior execs are dime a dozen globally and I've seldom seen any of them bring much that is genuinely unique to the table.

...

I'm not one to foster the sense of entitlement of "senior professionals" unless they have a genuinely unique skill set that you actually need. And *those* are so rare that you won't be negotiating from a policy anyway. Having an MBA and 20+ years of success behind you does not make you "unique". Not by any stretch of the imagination. There are always hundreds, if not thousands, more of the same "senior professionals" out there. That's not just an opinion: there's solid research behind that idea.
Indeed - this is the cold hard reality.

2% of employees actually drive 90% of the real leadership, decision making and value creation in the organization. Identifying the 2% and focusing the “exceptional” advancement opportunities, rewards and incentives on that group without destabilizing the rest is the trick.

There are plenty of ways to waste money and energy on highly skilled and experienced non-leaders....

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Old Mar 4, 18, 1:58 am
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Depends if you are ticketed by CWT in the UK (Warrington) or by one of their other many business units. But assuming it is UK based, then UuA may work online, if not a call to BA should also do the trick. CWT don't do the Avios upgrade but they are able to see that it has happened since they lose control of the booking. For AUP, if it's a published fare then it's the same AUP process happens as normal, it can be done at the airport. I don't think POUGs can be done on CWT but since they use BA's booking process NDC directly but it maybe other FTers have seen this.
i used to work for a business that used HRG and I was able to UUA a flight By ringing BA. It’s the only time I’ve ever done this on a TA booking and it was about three years ago.
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Old Mar 4, 18, 3:47 am
  #159  
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Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis View Post
Why would anyone want to work for a longer period of time than they have to?
Some of us quite enjoy our work ...

Originally Posted by StuckinITH View Post
Not relevant to the OP since he's going to work for a company but in the US you have to make a distinction between private and public universities (public in the US has a different meaning than in the UK). I have seen the travel policies for some private universities and travel in J is allowed for flights longer than 6 hours if the money to pay for the travel does not come from grants from government agencies. There are fields where it's easy to get research grants from companies and if the contract does not specify that travel in J is not allowed, professors are allowed to travel in J.
My experience of UK universities is even if they have some kind of travel policy, ultimately they are too disorganized and too decentralized to enforce it, so no one notices if you book your own ex-EU travel at approximately the right price. I did once see (when I was a PhD student) a professor from a different UK university going to the same conference as me, we were both sat in Club World and we both pointedly ignored each other.
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Old Mar 4, 18, 4:03 am
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth View Post
It's not the asking about the general policy per se, it's the ones that think they are valuable enough to *negotiate* an individual policy exception and ask questions about how the vendor side of it works. *They* are the needy ones that should be avoided at all costs. There are very few genuine snowflakes out there.
I'm really confused here. What is the difference between someone who enquires about (and seeks to negotiate) J travel as part of their employment package, very reasonably imo, and someone who you describe as having a false sense of their own value, and being snowflakes, and to be avoided at all costs?

By your yardstick, the prospective employee who dares to enquire and negotiate non-Y travel is damned!
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Old Mar 4, 18, 5:06 am
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After spending many years working for American companies I was approached by a British company. The MD, who I knew very well from the industry, invited me to lunch for “a chat”.

We initially spent a while talking about how I get cheap flights in Business class from information and help from FlyerTalk.Then the conversation came around to “I would like you to join my company” and terms were discussed and sounded very good. I then asked if they had a travel policy and what class of travel could I use. He apologised and said that all staff, except company directors (who flew Business), fly in Y.I politely thanked him for the lunch and told him I couldn’t accept his offer.

He thought for a few seconds and then said “if you promise that you will always look for the cheapest flights I will make an exception and allow you to travel in Business”. So I happily accepted the job.
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Old Mar 4, 18, 6:07 am
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I negotiated it into my contract, r.e. no Y travel. The company does not have a strict policy as such but tends to put everyone else in Y. For me, it's WTP as a minimum and ideally CW on the longer routes.

I think I am at the stage in the career ladder where I can. Otherwise if I was just leaving uni etc then it would be a different story...
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Old Mar 4, 18, 8:32 pm
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I think it depends on a few things. Your physical characteristics, your age/career stage, and how you've handled travel in the past.

For me, this would be an easy "no thank you." I'm 6'4" and heavyset, I'm 25+ years into my career, and for the last 18 I haven't had to deal with travel agencies and book my own travel. My employer is Y only for under 3 hours, extra legroom seating/PE for 3+ hours, and we rarely travel over 10 hours but it is client negotiated. Our choice of carriers within a reasonable price differential, and no ultra UCC such as Spirit/Frontier. But we can always spend our own extra money to buy domestic MCE/F or international J if we document it properly, our expense reporting system has line items and image placeholders for all of that.

Being reimbursed only for Y isn't the issue for me. It's not having ticketing flexibility (given c-w-s' examples) to buy the exit row for $75 each way on ORD-LHR, or buying up to PE, or being able to focus on airlines which will take care of me during IRROPS.

I could have handled that at 26. Not now. And if they're willing to throw an extra 24k GBP at your to entice you, then you're doing better than I am career wise, and so it'd be even more of a challenge from my point of view. At this stage of the careers of many of us here, control over the entire travel process, even at some expense to us, is paramount to being both effective and healthy.
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Old Mar 4, 18, 9:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
I'm really confused here. What is the difference between someone who enquires about (and seeks to negotiate) J travel as part of their employment package, very reasonably imo, and someone who you describe as having a false sense of their own value, and being snowflakes, and to be avoided at all costs?

By your yardstick, the prospective employee who dares to enquire and negotiate non-Y travel is damned!
I was contrasting the candidate that asks what the travel policy is at a general level ('What's your general travel policy, please?') vs the candidate who asks about how third party vendors apply policy and wants to talk to them directly about it (eg. "Can I talk to CWT and ask them how they handle split payments for upgrades out of policy so I can get the travel class I prefer, please?").

The first is a perfectly fine question at the offer negotiation phase and the latter is a flag to move on to the next candidate.
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Old Mar 5, 18, 12:46 am
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Personally, I'd be reluctant to take a job with extensive long-haul travel in Y. Once or twice a year to a conference or management meeting is one thing: beyond that it's physically and mentally taxing and would severely impact my quality of life and personal performance.

With regular, demanding work straight off the plane - I wouldn't do my best work without a day in lieu at each end, and if you actually need someone's skills that badly to fly that far, the premium to fly business is typically less than the added value of a day's productivity.

Short-haul Y is fine, of course.
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