Onboard etiquette: blocked seats
Jan 26, 2018, 2:34 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,166
not that I normally advocate this, but mild passive-aggressive should work for this one; board late; keep headphones in; plop a magazine or coat or something in the seat...nothing that really obviously needs stowing, just a small item but enough that any prospective "seat buddy" would have to actively move it and (in most cases) feel they have to make some effort to 'ask' if the seat is free (i.e. don't just leave a wide open seat that anyone can just plop down into).
70-80% of people won't have the drive to go that extra nudge and will likely not attempt - you're on risk for the 20-30% who will probably just move in anyway, but that's life.
70-80% of people won't have the drive to go that extra nudge and will likely not attempt - you're on risk for the 20-30% who will probably just move in anyway, but that's life.
Jan 26, 2018, 3:10 am
#17
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
I'd add "with a hidden, big inner disappointment" to that.
Having said that, I wouldn't actually move myself next to someone with an empty seat because it feels like I'm depriving that person of a bit of luck (or Gold privilege) in having an empty seat next to them.
Jan 26, 2018, 3:26 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BA, Hilton
Posts: 2,091
On a related note - and this is something that I will never personally be troubled by
- when deciding, would the crew look at the CIV of the person currently next to the empty seat? e.g. if it were a high level GGL or Prem would they be more inclined to refuse the request?Thanks for any insight
(And I absolutely agree a blocked seat is a "nice to have" perk, in no way an entitlement, I say "lost" for lack of a better phrase)
Jan 26, 2018, 3:36 am
#19
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If I’m honest I have never considered it, as far as I’m concerned anyone sitting in that cabin should be able to move to another/better seat if they are available.
Jan 26, 2018, 3:49 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BA, Hilton
Posts: 2,091
Thanks for that - just idle curiosity as I'll never reach those heights and anyone wanting the guarantee should be flying F anyway I guess.
Jan 26, 2018, 4:36 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 516
You'd be suprised at how un-proactive the average passenger can be and how willing people are to accept their allocated seat...
I flew to Signapore last year in one of the front pairs of WTP on the 773 (which have to be the best WTP seats in the sky) due to it being the over wing exit row and to my amazment in the nearly full cabin one spare seat was next to me and other was in the front row on the other side of the cabin. I presumed someone would move to take it (I would have done), but it remained available for the whole flight.
My personal view on this for such a long flight is that the vast majority in the cabin had paid to choose their seat and therefore didn't want to move on principle. You can't pay to choose the front row until T-48 (I think) and therefore those who choose late (me as a bronze at the time) end up being rewarded.
I flew to Signapore last year in one of the front pairs of WTP on the 773 (which have to be the best WTP seats in the sky) due to it being the over wing exit row and to my amazment in the nearly full cabin one spare seat was next to me and other was in the front row on the other side of the cabin. I presumed someone would move to take it (I would have done), but it remained available for the whole flight.
My personal view on this for such a long flight is that the vast majority in the cabin had paid to choose their seat and therefore didn't want to move on principle. You can't pay to choose the front row until T-48 (I think) and therefore those who choose late (me as a bronze at the time) end up being rewarded.
Jan 26, 2018, 4:44 am
#22
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Balham - Gateway to The South
Programs: BA Bronze
Posts: 2,020
The recent AA LGA-ORD flight where there our aircraft went tech after getting to the runway saw the passenger load reduce considerably, I was in MCE (bulkhead) - the FA ejected several passengers from MCE and made them sit in their designated seat.
I had the first 2 rows all to myself !
I can understand the desire to move and have done it myself (for the lay flat Y bed in the middle seats of a BA747).
A blocked seat - which I don’t receive myself is great but not a right. I would leave it up to the cabin crew to mention/not mention as they see fit.
I had the first 2 rows all to myself !
I can understand the desire to move and have done it myself (for the lay flat Y bed in the middle seats of a BA747).
A blocked seat - which I don’t receive myself is great but not a right. I would leave it up to the cabin crew to mention/not mention as they see fit.
Jan 26, 2018, 5:10 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I disagree with others. Theoretical seating gives specific passengers (rather than others) the benefit of an empty seat next to them for a reason. Of course it is not a "published" benefit, but it is a benefit nonetheless, an explicit choice made by the airline to provide specific soft perks when available to specific customers. One should obey crew instructions, but there is absolutely no requirement to do it with 'grace and smile' or pretend to be happy about it when a passenger decides to overrule a benefit purposefully granted by the airline and it is very much a shame that crew are not provided with the information about blocked seats and asked to enforce them. So personally, I would obey the instruction, but I would actually express my dissatisfaction to the SCCM and later to customer relations.
Of course it is not an entitlement (you won't get empty seats on all flights), but it is a perk that the airline has specifically chosen to give to specific customers in priority using a systematic approach of prioritisation, and not just a random luck of the draw, just like the prioritisation of meal preferences for example, or providing status customers with the best rerouting option in case of IRROPS when the next flight does not have enough space for all the passengers affected by a prior cancellation.
I would notably point out that a number of other airlines which also have theoretical seating models give blocked seat information to crew and explicitly ask crew to enforce that privilege (KL comes to mind, they are particularly fierce about this, but AF and DL among others are also active about enforcing).
Failing that, you could just buy a dummy and sit him/her next to you!
Of course it is not an entitlement (you won't get empty seats on all flights), but it is a perk that the airline has specifically chosen to give to specific customers in priority using a systematic approach of prioritisation, and not just a random luck of the draw, just like the prioritisation of meal preferences for example, or providing status customers with the best rerouting option in case of IRROPS when the next flight does not have enough space for all the passengers affected by a prior cancellation.
I would notably point out that a number of other airlines which also have theoretical seating models give blocked seat information to crew and explicitly ask crew to enforce that privilege (KL comes to mind, they are particularly fierce about this, but AF and DL among others are also active about enforcing).
Failing that, you could just buy a dummy and sit him/her next to you!
Jan 26, 2018, 5:24 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
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I disagree with others. Theoretical seating gives specific passengers (rather than others) the benefit of an empty seat next to them for a reason. Of course it is not a "published" benefit, but it is a benefit nonetheless, an explicit choice made by the airline to provide specific soft perks when available to specific customers. One should obey crew instructions, but there is absolutely no requirement to do it with 'grace and smile' or pretend to be happy about it when a passenger decides to overrule a benefit purposefully granted by the airline and it is very much a shame that crew are not provided with the information about blocked seats and asked to enforce them. So personally, I would obey the instruction, but I would actually express my dissatisfaction to the SCCM and later to customer relations.
Of course it is not an entitlement (you won't get empty seats on all flights), but it is a perk that the airline has specifically chosen to give to specific customers in priority using a systematic approach of prioritisation, and not just a random luck of the draw, just like the prioritisation of meal preferences for example, or providing status customers with the best rerouting option in case of IRROPS when the next flight does not have enough space for all the passengers affected by a prior cancellation.
I would notably point out that a number of other airlines which also have theoretical seating models give blocked seat information to crew and explicitly ask crew to enforce that privilege (KL comes to mind, they are particularly fierce about this, but AF and DL among others are also active about enforcing).
Failing that, you could just buy a dummy and sit him/her next to you!
Of course it is not an entitlement (you won't get empty seats on all flights), but it is a perk that the airline has specifically chosen to give to specific customers in priority using a systematic approach of prioritisation, and not just a random luck of the draw, just like the prioritisation of meal preferences for example, or providing status customers with the best rerouting option in case of IRROPS when the next flight does not have enough space for all the passengers affected by a prior cancellation.
I would notably point out that a number of other airlines which also have theoretical seating models give blocked seat information to crew and explicitly ask crew to enforce that privilege (KL comes to mind, they are particularly fierce about this, but AF and DL among others are also active about enforcing).
Failing that, you could just buy a dummy and sit him/her next to you!
Jan 26, 2018, 5:28 am
#26
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,926
I disagree with others. Theoretical seating gives specific passengers (rather than others) the benefit of an empty seat next to them for a reason. Of course it is not a "published" benefit, but it is a benefit nonetheless, an explicit choice made by the airline to provide specific soft perks when available to specific customers...
There was an excellent post in the https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...ts-status.html topic which set out the 'thinkinhg' behind TS:
Seat maps in FLY
As flights cut over to FLY (all flights Worldwide will be completed by August 2016) you will start to see a change in the seatmaps from -72 hrs. Historically at -72hrs you could see all seats that were not occupied, but now at -72hrs you will start to see a lot of restricted seats and this is due to a process called ‘Theoretical seating’.
•Any seat with a T or / symbol – should be considered as occupied. These seats are being held for high value customers who just haven’t checked in or had a seat assigned yet.
•Key to FLY is recognising premium customers. We will only reserve seats for premium customers and protect seats for unallocated customers with special requirements who really need them (WCHC, BSCT, INFT, PETC, BULK, CBBG, DEPA, DEPU, UMNR, DIPH, MEDA, Prem, Gold, Emerald, Silver, Sapphire, J, C, Y fares, BLND, EXST, CHLD, DEAF, DSAB, WCHS, Groups over 10).
•If we override T or / seats we may be displacing any of the above customers if they haven’t had their seats allocated for any particular reason (i.e.: late bookings)
To ensure our premium passengers and paid seating revenue is not impacted please adhere to the following:
•Prem/Gold/Silver Execs can obtain free seating from the time of booking, for themselves and all passengers within their booking (max of 7)
•We have identified an increase in the no. of seats taken by passengers that are no longer traveling with the Exec member and this is taking away choice from BA’s high yield passengers
•Should the Exec member date change, be divided from the original booking and therefore no longer be on the same flight as the other passengers, then all seat numbers for the non-Execs should be removed
•Passengers that are no longer travelling with the Prem/Gold/Silver should have seats removed and take part in ‘Paid Seating’.
As flights cut over to FLY (all flights Worldwide will be completed by August 2016) you will start to see a change in the seatmaps from -72 hrs. Historically at -72hrs you could see all seats that were not occupied, but now at -72hrs you will start to see a lot of restricted seats and this is due to a process called ‘Theoretical seating’.
•Any seat with a T or / symbol – should be considered as occupied. These seats are being held for high value customers who just haven’t checked in or had a seat assigned yet.
•Key to FLY is recognising premium customers. We will only reserve seats for premium customers and protect seats for unallocated customers with special requirements who really need them (WCHC, BSCT, INFT, PETC, BULK, CBBG, DEPA, DEPU, UMNR, DIPH, MEDA, Prem, Gold, Emerald, Silver, Sapphire, J, C, Y fares, BLND, EXST, CHLD, DEAF, DSAB, WCHS, Groups over 10).
•If we override T or / seats we may be displacing any of the above customers if they haven’t had their seats allocated for any particular reason (i.e.: late bookings)
To ensure our premium passengers and paid seating revenue is not impacted please adhere to the following:
•Prem/Gold/Silver Execs can obtain free seating from the time of booking, for themselves and all passengers within their booking (max of 7)
•We have identified an increase in the no. of seats taken by passengers that are no longer traveling with the Exec member and this is taking away choice from BA’s high yield passengers
•Should the Exec member date change, be divided from the original booking and therefore no longer be on the same flight as the other passengers, then all seat numbers for the non-Execs should be removed
•Passengers that are no longer travelling with the Prem/Gold/Silver should have seats removed and take part in ‘Paid Seating’.
Jan 26, 2018, 5:36 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,500
You might want to think of it this way - if I pick a bad seat at the back, near the toilets, theoretical seating will still block the adjacent seat to me for my comfort. It's not trying to keep it for another high value customer.
Jan 26, 2018, 5:39 am
#28
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I disagree with others. Theoretical seating gives specific passengers (rather than others) the benefit of an empty seat next to them for a reason. Of course it is not a "published" benefit, but it is a benefit nonetheless, an explicit choice made by the airline to provide specific soft perks when available to specific customers. One should obey crew instructions, but there is absolutely no requirement to do it with 'grace and smile' or pretend to be happy about it when a passenger decides to overrule a benefit purposefully granted by the airline and it is very much a shame that crew are not provided with the information about blocked seats and asked to enforce them. So personally, I would obey the instruction, but I would actually express my dissatisfaction to the SCCM and later to customer relations.
That way you then just plonk down in any suitable seat that is free (assuming better than the existing allocation) and in the process take any unpublished benefits/soft perks out of the equation.
Whether adjoining passengers behave with 'grace and smile' is of little interest to me really. It is public transport after all and you are only paying for one seat.
Jan 26, 2018, 6:02 am
#29
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,926
There are many ways in which theoretical seating impacts the aircraft, but blocking the adjacent seat to high value customers is a particular intent of the system.
You might want to think of it this way - if I pick a bad seat at the back, near the toilets, theoretical seating will still block the adjacent seat to me for my comfort. It's not trying to keep it for another high value customer.
You might want to think of it this way - if I pick a bad seat at the back, near the toilets, theoretical seating will still block the adjacent seat to me for my comfort. It's not trying to keep it for another high value customer.
Jan 26, 2018, 6:12 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,765
I am well aware of that, perhaps I should have phrased the question differently. Was it BA's intention, when introducing TS, to provide blocked seating next to 'elites' to provide them with a (space available) entitlement and the right to complain or remonstrate if that blocked seat was then taken by another passenger once the doors were closed?
It does seem pointless worrying about it when the computerised seat maps say yes but the crew are none the wiser. You can hardly show them Expert Flyer and they'll suddenly make sure that seat remains free.
At the end of the day, its nothing more than luck in my opinion. Either no-one chose that seat for whatever reason or people just accept the seat they've been given (I don't believe the systems do anything too fancy as a few times I've been put into say 6b, a middle seat, as that was the next empty seat row by row).