BED BUGS!!!
#151
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,653
I'm not quite sure responsible is the word I'd use! It seems a pretty fundamental principle of any public transportation service, in any class, that you don't expose your passengers to biting parasites; whether that be a coach, train or aeroplane!
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Clutching straws and damning with wafer thin praise
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,140
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,140
Can we PLEASE separate the issues of Cleaning (which is largely irrelevant to the BB issue) and Disinfestation.
Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue there’s not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know that’s too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.
BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you don’t know they’re there. And they don’t leap out at you!!
Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue there’s not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know that’s too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.
BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you don’t know they’re there. And they don’t leap out at you!!
#156
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
#157
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
I'd hope that it was cleaned after every flight, but given the standards of the cabins one can never be sure.
I'm not quite sure responsible is the word I'd use! It seems a pretty fundamental principle of any public transportation service, in any class, that you don't expose your passengers to biting parasites; whether that be a coach, train or aeroplane!
I'm not quite sure responsible is the word I'd use! It seems a pretty fundamental principle of any public transportation service, in any class, that you don't expose your passengers to biting parasites; whether that be a coach, train or aeroplane!
not clutching at anything dear, just asking a genuine question; after all you yourself have called upon the importance of accuracy here, and taking off the Journalist spin, CC found bed bugs, reported it, replacement plane found, crew go out of hours, new crew found. Expensive delay for BA to bear.
I think this is singlehandedly the worst post I have ever read on flyertalk, your hoping for other people to suffer, really?
Can we PLEASE separate the issues of Cleaning (which is largely irrelevant to the BB issue) and Disinfestation.
Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue there’s not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know that’s too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.
BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you don’t know they’re there. And they don’t leap out at you!!
Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue there’s not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know that’s too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.
BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you don’t know they’re there. And they don’t leap out at you!!
That having been said, I can understand why some jump to conclusions the two are related; and it is only natural to question why if one person saw them another didn’t, it is difficult to establish from media reports true substance and indeed there may be a variety of causes for this.
Last edited by navylad; Jan 16, 2018 at 3:16 pm
#158
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,158
We do all know from experience that BA cabins are often not cleaned as well as they should be. One could be forgiven for feeling some parts of the seating area are actually not often visited by the cleaners.
While understanding that bed bugs are no more prevalent in a dirty than a clean environment, it is also true that when the area is insufficiently cleaned, the likelyhood of discovering an infestation is less.
That is why I believe it more likely to discover these blighters on a BA aircraft. Other airlines with more dilligent cleaners and controls would have discovered and eradicated the things already.
While understanding that bed bugs are no more prevalent in a dirty than a clean environment, it is also true that when the area is insufficiently cleaned, the likelyhood of discovering an infestation is less.
That is why I believe it more likely to discover these blighters on a BA aircraft. Other airlines with more dilligent cleaners and controls would have discovered and eradicated the things already.
#159
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,210
Not unless they apply proactive measures of detection. Unfortunately, a reactive approach to the problem is the norm.
#160
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
OK, I have been trying to stay out of this one but now I'm biting. Pardon the pun.
A whole infestation is not going to be brought on board by one passenger. An odd one or two bugs are going to hitch a ride, and then if not removed, they will multiply and become an infestation. If BA actually cleaned their aircraft well between flights, they would be sucking up the little blightrers, and their eggs, before it became an infestation. If they are not vacuuming up the big chunks of bread and cake, etc. that adorn the floors and seats, they are not going to get these sneaky little critters.
A whole infestation is not going to be brought on board by one passenger. An odd one or two bugs are going to hitch a ride, and then if not removed, they will multiply and become an infestation. If BA actually cleaned their aircraft well between flights, they would be sucking up the little blightrers, and their eggs, before it became an infestation. If they are not vacuuming up the big chunks of bread and cake, etc. that adorn the floors and seats, they are not going to get these sneaky little critters.
Last edited by HilFly; Jan 16, 2018 at 3:58 pm Reason: typos
#161
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,158
Even a reactive approach would be sufficient as long as it is before the aircraft is handed over for service. That the BA crew noticed the bed bugs just after the cleaners supposedly prepared the cabin does not say much for the cleaners. Unless of course the aircraft was cleaned long before being towed to the stand. However, with BA’s current fleet utilisation I find this unlikely.
#162
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,210
Even a reactive approach would be sufficient as long as it is before the aircraft is handed over for service. That the BA crew noticed the bed bugs just after the cleaners supposedly prepared the cabin does not say much for the cleaners. Unless of course the aircraft was cleaned long before being towed to the stand. However, with BA’s current fleet utilisation I find this unlikely.
The most effective form of eradication are methyl bromide based fumigants - banned since 2005 so controlling outbreaks of bed bugs is a huge issue. Even the most advanced closed system heat treatments and forced air treatments cannot achieve total eradication. I suppose the only truly effective method is to remove/replace seats.
#163
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,653
Human beings are not effective bed bug detectors. Detection is a highly specialist area involving specialist teams armed with electronic detectors and/or scent detection dogs
The most effective form of eradication are methyl bromide based fumigants - banned since 2005 so controlling outbreaks of bed bugs is a huge issue. Even the most advanced closed system heat treatments and forced air treatments cannot achieve total eradication. I suppose the only truly effective method is to remove/replace seats.
The most effective form of eradication are methyl bromide based fumigants - banned since 2005 so controlling outbreaks of bed bugs is a huge issue. Even the most advanced closed system heat treatments and forced air treatments cannot achieve total eradication. I suppose the only truly effective method is to remove/replace seats.
We know that we hear about this issue more with British Airways than other carriers.
We know that the cabin crew spotted this and refused to take care aircraft out.
The cleaners could well have spotted the bugs, cleaned the visible ones within their allotted time and handed the aircraft over. By which time, more bugs could have come out of the seat and became visible to the crew.
I suspect that the outsourcing and cost-cutting that BA have implemented when it comes to cleanliness means that there’s little penalty for the cleaning company for getting this wrong. Therefore, they’ll do a superficial vacuum and not fix the problem. After all, they have no incentive to, it takes a lot of time, is probably not in their contract, and won’t be penalised for not doing so.
Where as if they send the aircraft out late as the cleaning has taken longer, they will get penalised, and won’t actually deal with the infestation fully either. A lose-lose situation for the cleaners.
#164
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,411
As for me the customer is the important part here, even more so as it’s health related, therefore why would any customer be concerned or indeed even need or want to know how much or if at all whether it’s an expensive delay or cost to BA to rectify a problem.
We know the BB problem is pretty rare, as some extremely regular flyers have pointed out, but that for me makes it even more important to rectify and solve this issue despite the cost or time involved. I for one would want to keep the crew and customer content as these are, overall and in the longer term, more important than the cost of a replacement aircraft and delay to the trip plus other parts.
As I said I’m intrigued as to why you point this out...bed bugs would be something I’d try to eradicate regardless of cost, (which BA did thankfully) especially in the hospitality business. It may be aviation but it’s also hospitality in many respects.
#165
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
So let’s look at what we know.
We know that we hear about this issue more with British Airways than other carriers.
We know that the cabin crew spotted this and [reportedly] refused to take care aircraft out [or reported it to BA who arranged for an alternative plane]
[and now let’s look at what we don’t know]
The cleaners could well have spotted the bugs, cleaned the visible ones within their allotted time and handed the aircraft over. By which time, more bugs could have come out of the seat and became visible to the crew.
I suspect that the outsourcing and cost-cutting that BA have implemented when it comes to cleanliness means that there’s little penalty for the cleaning company for getting this wrong. Therefore, they’ll do a superficial vacuum and not fix the problem. After all, they have no incentive to, it takes a lot of time, is probably not in their contract, and won’t be penalised for not doing so.
Where as if they send the aircraft out late as the cleaning has taken longer, they will get penalised, and won’t actually deal with the infestation fully either. A lose-lose situation for the cleaners.