BED BUGS!!!

Old Jan 16, 18, 9:48 am
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by navylad View Post


Do we know when the plane was cleaned? It may not have been as obvious as it was for the cabin crew.

Clearly BA have acted responsibile here, despite horrendous costs they changed planes and crew and no doubt paid out compensation for the delays.
I'd hope that it was cleaned after every flight, but given the standards of the cabins one can never be sure.

I'm not quite sure responsible is the word I'd use! It seems a pretty fundamental principle of any public transportation service, in any class, that you don't expose your passengers to biting parasites; whether that be a coach, train or aeroplane!
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Old Jan 16, 18, 10:39 am
  #152  
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Originally Posted by navylad View Post


Do we know when the plane was cleaned? It may not have been as obvious as it was for the cabin crew.

Clearly BA have acted responsibile here, despite horrendous costs they changed planes and crew and no doubt paid out compensation for the delays.
Clutching straws and damning with wafer thin praise
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Old Jan 16, 18, 10:47 am
  #153  
 
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You would think that the cleaning staff would have been bitten also.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 11:50 am
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Skysea View Post
You would think that the cleaning staff would have been bitten also.
I would like to think that the cleaning staff are moving around. BBs dont jump up at you and start eating
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Old Jan 16, 18, 11:59 am
  #155  
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Can we PLEASE separate the issues of Cleaning (which is largely irrelevant to the BB issue) and Disinfestation.

Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue there’s not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know that’s too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.

BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you don’t know they’re there. And they don’t leap out at you!!
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Old Jan 16, 18, 2:28 pm
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
I would like to think that the cleaning staff are moving around. BBs dont jump up at you and start eating
As every other insect on the planet seems to find me a toothsome morsel, I'm sure the bed bugs would flock my way once they heard that I was on board.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 2:50 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
I'd hope that it was cleaned after every flight, but given the standards of the cabins one can never be sure.

I'm not quite sure responsible is the word I'd use! It seems a pretty fundamental principle of any public transportation service, in any class, that you don't expose your passengers to biting parasites; whether that be a coach, train or aeroplane!
So do I hope, but the reason I pose the question is not that I suspect that it doesnt get cleaned between rotations, but if that had been the previous day for example , one might understand why it wasnt obvious to cleaners but subsequent obvious to Cabin Crew.

Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
Clutching straws and damning with wafer thin praise
not clutching at anything dear, just asking a genuine question; after all you yourself have called upon the importance of accuracy here, and taking off the Journalist spin, CC found bed bugs, reported it, replacement plane found, crew go out of hours, new crew found. Expensive delay for BA to bear.

Originally Posted by Skysea View Post
You would think that the cleaning staff would have been bitten also.
I think this is singlehandedly the worst post I have ever read on flyertalk, your hoping for other people to suffer, really?

Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
Can we PLEASE separate the issues of Cleaning (which is largely irrelevant to the BB issue) and Disinfestation.

Apart from the technical and chemical issues involved, as explained upthread quite clearly, until someone IDENTIFIES a BB issue theres not any chance if addressing the problem. Yes, I know thats too late for the victim, but disinfestation after every single sector, globally, is an unrealistic option.

BBs lurk in dark places, waiting for a dormant victim. Until you find them, you dont know theyre there. And they dont leap out at you!!
Thanks Uncle T, I quite agree that they are on the whole separate issues, one that I can see BA can improve upon and one, despite the cries of many on this thread that they need to improve, Little that they can currently do other than what they are doing already, quartine and eradication as and when the issues are highlighted.

That having been said, I can understand why some jump to conclusions the two are related; and it is only natural to question why if one person saw them another didnt, it is difficult to establish from media reports true substance and indeed there may be a variety of causes for this.

Last edited by navylad; Jan 16, 18 at 3:16 pm
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:13 pm
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We do all know from experience that BA cabins are often not cleaned as well as they should be. One could be forgiven for feeling some parts of the seating area are actually not often visited by the cleaners.

While understanding that bed bugs are no more prevalent in a dirty than a clean environment, it is also true that when the area is insufficiently cleaned, the likelyhood of discovering an infestation is less.

That is why I believe it more likely to discover these blighters on a BA aircraft. Other airlines with more dilligent cleaners and controls would have discovered and eradicated the things already.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post
That is why I believe it more likely to discover these blighters on a BA aircraft. Other airlines with more dilligent cleaners and controls would have discovered and eradicated the things already.
Not unless they apply proactive measures of detection. Unfortunately, a reactive approach to the problem is the norm.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:23 pm
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OK, I have been trying to stay out of this one but now I'm biting. Pardon the pun.

A whole infestation is not going to be brought on board by one passenger. An odd one or two bugs are going to hitch a ride, and then if not removed, they will multiply and become an infestation. If BA actually cleaned their aircraft well between flights, they would be sucking up the little blightrers, and their eggs, before it became an infestation. If they are not vacuuming up the big chunks of bread and cake, etc. that adorn the floors and seats, they are not going to get these sneaky little critters.
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Last edited by HilFly; Jan 16, 18 at 3:58 pm Reason: typos
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Not unless they apply proactive measures of detection. Unfortunately, a reactive approach to the problem is the norm.
Even a reactive approach would be sufficient as long as it is before the aircraft is handed over for service. That the BA crew noticed the bed bugs just after the cleaners supposedly prepared the cabin does not say much for the cleaners. Unless of course the aircraft was cleaned long before being towed to the stand. However, with BAs current fleet utilisation I find this unlikely.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:43 pm
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post


Even a reactive approach would be sufficient as long as it is before the aircraft is handed over for service. That the BA crew noticed the bed bugs just after the cleaners supposedly prepared the cabin does not say much for the cleaners. Unless of course the aircraft was cleaned long before being towed to the stand. However, with BAs current fleet utilisation I find this unlikely.
Human beings are not effective bed bug detectors. Detection is a highly specialist area involving specialist teams armed with electronic detectors and/or scent detection dogs

The most effective form of eradication are methyl bromide based fumigants - banned since 2005 so controlling outbreaks of bed bugs is a huge issue. Even the most advanced closed system heat treatments and forced air treatments cannot achieve total eradication. I suppose the only truly effective method is to remove/replace seats.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Human beings are not effective bed bug detectors. Detection is a highly specialist area involving specialist teams armed with electronic detectors and/or scent detection dogs

The most effective form of eradication are methyl bromide based fumigants - banned since 2005 so controlling outbreaks of bed bugs is a huge issue. Even the most advanced closed system heat treatments and forced air treatments cannot achieve total eradication. I suppose the only truly effective method is to remove/replace seats.
So lets look at what we know.

We know that we hear about this issue more with British Airways than other carriers.
We know that the cabin crew spotted this and refused to take care aircraft out.

The cleaners could well have spotted the bugs, cleaned the visible ones within their allotted time and handed the aircraft over. By which time, more bugs could have come out of the seat and became visible to the crew.

I suspect that the outsourcing and cost-cutting that BA have implemented when it comes to cleanliness means that theres little penalty for the cleaning company for getting this wrong. Therefore, theyll do a superficial vacuum and not fix the problem. After all, they have no incentive to, it takes a lot of time, is probably not in their contract, and wont be penalised for not doing so.

Where as if they send the aircraft out late as the cleaning has taken longer, they will get penalised, and wont actually deal with the infestation fully either. A lose-lose situation for the cleaners.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 4:00 pm
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Originally Posted by navylad View Post

CC found bed bugs, reported it, replacement plane found, crew go out of hours, new crew found. Expensive delay for BA to bear.
You have mentioned this twice so now I am really intrigued as to why you feel this is a point to be made?

As for me the customer is the important part here, even more so as its health related, therefore why would any customer be concerned or indeed even need or want to know how much or if at all whether its an expensive delay or cost to BA to rectify a problem.

We know the BB problem is pretty rare, as some extremely regular flyers have pointed out, but that for me makes it even more important to rectify and solve this issue despite the cost or time involved. I for one would want to keep the crew and customer content as these are, overall and in the longer term, more important than the cost of a replacement aircraft and delay to the trip plus other parts.

As I said Im intrigued as to why you point this out...bed bugs would be something Id try to eradicate regardless of cost, (which BA did thankfully) especially in the hospitality business. It may be aviation but its also hospitality in many respects.
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Old Jan 16, 18, 4:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post

So lets look at what we know.

We know that we hear about this issue more with British Airways than other carriers.
We know that the cabin crew spotted this and [reportedly] refused to take care aircraft out [or reported it to BA who arranged for an alternative plane]

[and now lets look at what we dont know]
The cleaners could well have spotted the bugs, cleaned the visible ones within their allotted time and handed the aircraft over. By which time, more bugs could have come out of the seat and became visible to the crew.

I suspect that the outsourcing and cost-cutting that BA have implemented when it comes to cleanliness means that theres little penalty for the cleaning company for getting this wrong. Therefore, theyll do a superficial vacuum and not fix the problem. After all, they have no incentive to, it takes a lot of time, is probably not in their contract, and wont be penalised for not doing so.

Where as if they send the aircraft out late as the cleaning has taken longer, they will get penalised, and wont actually deal with the infestation fully either. A lose-lose situation for the cleaners.
i think this is a little far fetched, I dont think bed bug eradication is in any airline cleaning contract, it is a specialist service.
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