May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Dec 13, 2018, 4:27 pm
#1711
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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As you know, it's actually not your job to get any information here, it's BA's job to prove their line of argument. Now in your specific case, the 787 issue is probably something that BA may well feel is not covered by EC261 Article 7, and a few years ago they would have been in a strong position here: there were a number of court cases where a manufacturer's recall was deemed extraordinary. BA may well believe that still holds true, the inconvenient truth is that CEDR at least has been making a series of rulings saying "yes it's extraordinary, but no BA, you haven't proven you have taken all reasonable measures to head it off". So in your case it's quite simple, you just want BA to say "our answer won't change", then you can go full steam to CEDR. Consequently it's not so much a threat as a mechanism to get to CEDR as soon as possible. I wouldn't get sucked into BA's line of argument, just focus on BA refusing your claim as comprehensively as possible. Or wait 8 weeks as per CEDR's guidelines.
Dec 14, 2018, 6:41 am
#1712
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shoreham By Sea
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,330
I’m happy to keep the folk here updated. Although I’m familiar with MCOL to do with other matters, this could be the first time I may use CEDR so I’m learning every step of the way.
At this time I have simply replied to Customer Relations rejection of my compensation asking them to reconsider and took a few points from the CEDR docs posted earlier on this thread. Namely that although the Trent RR engine is an exrtaordinary circumstance BA have not demonstrated they could have avoided the cancellation. Also noting the RR issue was known in 2017 and that my flight was cancelled less than 24h before departure. It was also noted that a number of similar rejections that have been adjuicated by CEDR have be found against the airline and that evidence of many of these are in the piblic domain online.
I finished by asking that if they are not willing to change their mind and pay the compensation that they issue a statement of deadlock of refer me to CEDR without delay so I can seek redress via that route.
Will keep all updated.
At this time I have simply replied to Customer Relations rejection of my compensation asking them to reconsider and took a few points from the CEDR docs posted earlier on this thread. Namely that although the Trent RR engine is an exrtaordinary circumstance BA have not demonstrated they could have avoided the cancellation. Also noting the RR issue was known in 2017 and that my flight was cancelled less than 24h before departure. It was also noted that a number of similar rejections that have been adjuicated by CEDR have be found against the airline and that evidence of many of these are in the piblic domain online.
I finished by asking that if they are not willing to change their mind and pay the compensation that they issue a statement of deadlock of refer me to CEDR without delay so I can seek redress via that route.
Will keep all updated.
Dec 14, 2018, 9:34 am
#1713
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,754
I’m happy to keep the folk here updated. Although I’m familiar with MCOL to do with other matters, this could be the first time I may use CEDR so I’m learning every step of the way.
At this time I have simply replied to Customer Relations rejection of my compensation asking them to reconsider and took a few points from the CEDR docs posted earlier on this thread. Namely that although the Trent RR engine is an exrtaordinary circumstance BA have not demonstrated they could have avoided the cancellation. Also noting the RR issue was known in 2017 and that my flight was cancelled less than 24h before departure. It was also noted that a number of similar rejections that have been adjuicated by CEDR have be found against the airline and that evidence of many of these are in the piblic domain online.
I finished by asking that if they are not willing to change their mind and pay the compensation that they issue a statement of deadlock of refer me to CEDR without delay so I can seek redress via that route.
Will keep all updated.
At this time I have simply replied to Customer Relations rejection of my compensation asking them to reconsider and took a few points from the CEDR docs posted earlier on this thread. Namely that although the Trent RR engine is an exrtaordinary circumstance BA have not demonstrated they could have avoided the cancellation. Also noting the RR issue was known in 2017 and that my flight was cancelled less than 24h before departure. It was also noted that a number of similar rejections that have been adjuicated by CEDR have be found against the airline and that evidence of many of these are in the piblic domain online.
I finished by asking that if they are not willing to change their mind and pay the compensation that they issue a statement of deadlock of refer me to CEDR without delay so I can seek redress via that route.
Will keep all updated.
Dec 14, 2018, 9:36 am
#1714
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 21
Also cite the Rolls Royce advisory that the inspection failure rate was anticipated to be 90% per engine so failure of an aircraft is 99% certain.
Dec 15, 2018, 1:49 am
#1715
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shoreham By Sea
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,330
Had a reply already stating that they are not changing their mind as the reason for the delay was an unscheduled further inspection with the majoriity of the reply citing how much emphsis they put on safety.
This does not change anything for me. I’m off to CEDR. Annoyingly they didn’t say this was deadlock or refer me ro CEDR so is there any response I should make in the meantime or just wait the 8 weeks? I guess they are hopnig some will forget if they have to wait 8 weeks.
This does not change anything for me. I’m off to CEDR. Annoyingly they didn’t say this was deadlock or refer me ro CEDR so is there any response I should make in the meantime or just wait the 8 weeks? I guess they are hopnig some will forget if they have to wait 8 weeks.
Dec 15, 2018, 2:19 am
#1716
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Had a reply already stating that they are not changing their mind as the reason for the delay was an unscheduled further inspection with the majoriity of the reply citing how much emphsis they put on safety.
This does not change anything for me. I’m off to CEDR. Annoyingly they didn’t say this was deadlock or refer me ro CEDR so is there any response I should make in the meantime or just wait the 8 weeks? I guess they are hopnig some will forget if they have to wait 8 weeks.
This does not change anything for me. I’m off to CEDR. Annoyingly they didn’t say this was deadlock or refer me ro CEDR so is there any response I should make in the meantime or just wait the 8 weeks? I guess they are hopnig some will forget if they have to wait 8 weeks.
Dec 15, 2018, 3:27 am
#1717
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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This does not change anything for me. I’m off to CEDR. Annoyingly they didn’t say this was deadlock or refer me ro CEDR so is there any response I should make in the meantime or just wait the 8 weeks? I guess they are hopnig some will forget if they have to wait 8 weeks.
If the airline or airport is unable to agree with you on a mutually acceptable resolution to your complaint, and no further proposals are forthcoming, you may receive a letter from them with the title ‘deadlock letter’ or ‘final response’. The letter will tell you that the airline or the airport will not be able to put forward any further proposals and give you the name of the independent dispute resolution body to which they subscribe.
I think you have had the final response, they appear not to have put the final clause in, but I think you are probably OK to go to CEDR, after all the ADR body for BA (CEDR) is a matter for the public record. By all means ask for that CEDR reference but I don't think that needs to hold you back, CEDR will be well aware of how BA operates on this point.
Dec 15, 2018, 3:58 am
#1718
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shoreham By Sea
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,330
This is how CEDR defines deadlock in their Guidance notes (available on their website):
If the airline or airport is unable to agree with you on a mutually acceptable resolution to your complaint, and no further proposals are forthcoming, you may receive a letter from them with the title ‘deadlock letter’ or ‘final response’. The letter will tell you that the airline or the airport will not be able to put forward any further proposals and give you the name of the independent dispute resolution body to which they subscribe.
I think you have had the final response, they appear not to have put the final clause in, but I think you are probably OK to go to CEDR, after all the ADR body for BA (CEDR) is a matter for the public record. By all means ask for that CEDR reference but I don't think that needs to hold you back, CEDR will be well aware of how BA operates on this point.
Dec 15, 2018, 4:00 am
#1719
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,754
I think you have had the final response, they appear not to have put the final clause in, but I think you are probably OK to go to CEDR, after all the ADR body for BA (CEDR) is a matter for the public record. By all means ask for that CEDR reference but I don't think that needs to hold you back, CEDR will be well aware of how BA operates on this point.
No biggie but worth getting them to say the obvious.
Dec 15, 2018, 4:08 am
#1720
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BRS
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,993
Is it correct/allowed to use historic exchange rates? Just made a claim with QR and they've offered me. 300euro based on 2016 rates.
Dec 15, 2018, 7:19 am
#1721
Moderator, Hertz; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Just an update to my Sept downgrade issue and rebooking with BA
Wrote to BA GGL CS end of Sept and they denied my claim.
Filed on BA.com but no one ever got back to me.
I filed with CEDR and presented all my "evidence" (tickets booked and confirmed in F, the IRROP and downgrade papers I got from BA LHR T5 on the day of, the emails and my submitted forms asking for a refund).
On my end, everything was accepted and approved by CEDR. Now I'm waiting for a response from BA.
Wrote to BA GGL CS end of Sept and they denied my claim.
Filed on BA.com but no one ever got back to me.
I filed with CEDR and presented all my "evidence" (tickets booked and confirmed in F, the IRROP and downgrade papers I got from BA LHR T5 on the day of, the emails and my submitted forms asking for a refund).
On my end, everything was accepted and approved by CEDR. Now I'm waiting for a response from BA.
Dec 15, 2018, 7:56 am
#1722
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,196
There is nothing I can see in the regulations about what exchange rates should be used.
There is a case to be made that the rate on the day you were delayed should apply. (was your delay in 2016?)
Ditto a case can be made that it should be the rate on the date you claimed or the date they agreed your claim or even paid your claim
CEDR uses the rate on the 1st working day of the month in which they settled your claim.
Dec 15, 2018, 10:40 am
#1723
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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The way I see it is that the operating airline owes you 300€. If you have a Euro account, or your credit card will accept a 300€ refund, then the airline has met the requirements by paying you in this currency, plus potentially interest depending on the background / jurisdiction / claim process. If they pay in another currency then that's a negotiation between you and the airline.
Dec 15, 2018, 12:59 pm
#1724
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,246
CAA wants Airlines to be clearer on Art. 8 https://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-sets-...een-cancelled/
Dec 16, 2018, 12:23 am
#1725
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BRS
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,993
The way I see it is that the operating airline owes you 300€. If you have a Euro account, or your credit card will accept a 300€ refund, then the airline has met the requirements by paying you in this currency, plus potentially interest depending on the background / jurisdiction / claim process. If they pay in another currency then that's a negotiation between you and the airline.