corporate-wage-slave

You may need to leave it a month unless you have Silver or Gold status (they typically get replies fairly quickly if it is straightforward, as this case should be). If you want it to move more quickly, and assuming you got the automated incident log number on the email back, then you could call Customer Relations during the UK afternoons, 13hrs to 17hrs, Monday to Fridays.

nickplaton

I was due to fly on BA188 on Thursday 30th August between EWR-LHR. I made initial contact via twitter about claiming under EC261. The response was I would not be entitled to compensation because the 787 was having engine checks. Where do I stand?

Thanks in advance

corporate-wage-slave

Personally I think it is very much up for challenge. BA simply don't have enough aircraft to run the schedule, and the 787 is a long term issue. It would be an even stronger argument if it was LHR-EWR, but on the basis that there is presumably no LHR-EWR service either then personally I don't think BA have a strong case. They do have some legal backing for their argument, but my view would be that those court cases would relate to an immediate grounding of a large fleet for immediate safety works, rather than the situation BA is in. Now because BA do have some basis for refusing your claim, if you were UK based I would be looking at MCOL rather than CEDR. Assuming, of course, the replacement service is outside the timeframes explained at the top of the thread.

Unfortunately despite all those affected by this long running saga, not one single FTer has been prepared to take this all the way through MCOL and then explain what happened here.

nickplaton

Thanks for your reply. I am UK based. If I were to go down the MCOL route, what would be my basis for the claim; just claiming for the €600 that I feel I'm entitled to? As I am staying with family, there is no accommodation cost; as a teacher, school doesn't start until Monday (so loss of time isn't an issue) So there wasn't really a financial impact on me. I decided to take the next day BA188 from EWR as I am staying close to the airport. They replaced the flight with a 772. Could the fact I wanted the flight the next day cause a problem for my case? There are only 2 flights to LHR from EWR. 188 is the 9:35pm flight.

Cheers in advance

corporate-wage-slave

The basis of the claim would be a cancellation / rebook beyond the allowed timescales under Article 7, where extraordinary circumstances do not apply. As a secondary argument, which is allowed under MCOL, you could say that even if extraordinary circumstances applies, this activity is inherent in flight operations, plus there is more BA could do to minimise the impact (e.g. using an alternative aircraft, routing you on alternative airlines). However it's not entirely clear from the details provided: if they offered you a seat on the the 772 that day, or offered a JFK service within the timescales, then I don't see BA being liable for an Article 7 claim. If you went out of your way to suggest the next day's service then that may count against you, if you went out of your way to ask for alternative services close to your original booking, that would count in your favour.

nickplaton

I had to go through AA as it was an AA ticket. I was offered other flights before the original flight but from JFK but I didn't want to leave from JFK. I asked for the next day 9:35pm flight from EWR. So I guess it would count against me then.

corporate-wage-slave

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, it depends what BA knows about your conversation with AA.....

danger

Oh this is laughable, BA. "Sorry, you're not entitled to compensation because a flight attendant got stuck in peak hour traffic". "Sorry, you're not entitled to compensation because the catering truck ran out of fuel". "Sorry, you're not entitled to compensation because the printer in the dispatch office was out of ink". Get a grip, BA.

simons1

I'm surprised that Bott & Co haven't had a test case yet on the 787 saga.

Seems there are several areas where this is the case, such as the MF strike action.

nrw24

I have a very similar case I want to pursue via MCOL (BA customer relations has refused compensation) and I want to look into the aircraft assignment for the flight that was cancelled. When I requested this, BA declined to provide that info. Is there a way after the fact to see what aircraft was assigned for a particular flight? I've used BAsource to get other info. It was the BA69 on 27/8 so it was a 787-900, but the flight wasn't cancelled until 21/8 and the two birds that went in for maintenance (G-ZBKI and G-ZBKD) did so 4 and 5 days before that respectively and BA admit in their email that this was done to rescheduling of various flights (but still saying that direct cause is the engine-related extraordinary circumstances), so I'm trying to look into whether one of those two was actually assigned or if the aircraft assigned flew another route that day. I am thinking that they might not have taken reasonable measures here given the delay in cancelling the flight and because this was quite probably down to fleet management. (They also tried to argue with me that the burden of proof to show that it was extraordinary circumstances was on them and kept insisting it was mine—humph!). Any other advice much welcomed! I am also considering contact Bott & Co.

rbAA

I used the information from the following:
https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/BAW
British Airways Jet Tracker
My CEDR decision was due on Aug 25th but as with anything dealing with BA, it's late. BA did pay the Article 9 compensation last month, but I'm still waiting the decision on the Article 7 and 8 comp.

TeamStorm

Hi all, a quick bit of advice would be appreciated. I'm booked to travel to TLV in First on 6th October on the 16:45 departure, and a few days ago I got the ping of an email and a text message to say the flight had been cancelled and I'd been re-booked onto the morning TLV flight in First. I'd assumed that this was a 787 replacement issue given it was so far ahead, and I've had a few of y SJC's cancelled so was kinda conditioned into thinking that.

Anyway, I thought I'd have a look before calling BA at the timings of the other flights, and was shocked to see the 16:45 departure still for sale - so I called up and asked them if on my booking the outbound was cancelled. The operator told me it was showing as cancelled, I then asked them to look to see if the flight was actually running, and they confirmed it was.

It seems the flight wasn't cancelled at all, but swapped from a 4 to a 3 class 777. So here is where my questions begin

1) Do I give BA the benefit of the doubt, as the flight isn't cancelled, and it could appear they were trying to get out of paying appropriate compensation for what should have been an involuntary downgrade - or do you think this is just incompetence, anyone had this before ?
2) I can't make the earlier flight they have moved me to in F, and they've now told me there isn't any Club seating left on the three-class 777 that's replaced my four-class 777, so all they could offer me on that now is WT+ (so a double downgrade) - if I accept that, is that then a 'voluntary' downgrade, as they are offering me first on another flight.
3) If a double-downgrade does that change compensation, as I've rolled all the way from a First product, through Business and down to an Economy product (which I'm actually shocked they would allow to happen).

Ironically, had they have just downgraded me (and not pretend the flight was cancelled) they would have got me a seat in business as a colleague of mine managed to book one to travel with me after that cancellation txt that I got it turns out, so this seems to be a fine mess that BA has got itself into.

Would really welcome any thoughts from the wisdom of the group

Ed

rossmacd

Would BA ever give you benefit of the doubt?

Depending on how you answer that, will determine how you should proceed.

TeamStorm

From time to time yes, agent was very apologetic about it, but with one data point I can't make a judgement, hence wondering if others have seen this, or if it is a one-off glitch (always possible with BA)

corporate-wage-slave

It is standard procedure on BA that if there is an equipment change that leads to either First or WTP no longer being offered then it comes over to the user as a cancellation. This has some advantages since it allows easy rebooking to other services, including perhaps another trip to Israel if that suits you. It also allows a full refund, and to get to TLV by some other route - and there are many such options including off course Iberia (which BA should be able to offer to you, I think). BA have in the past tried to argue that this cancellation, if more than 2 weeks notice is given, means they feel they don't owe you the downgrade cancellation reimbursement in EC261, however they no longer allow that to go to an MCOL hearing. So long as it is properly argued against the wording of EC261 then BA can't really avoid that reimbursement. They obviously are ok to give their own Involuntary Refund calculation, which is unlikely to be better than EC261 in this case, though it will depend on what you paid. So in short I think you are OK for EC261 reimbursement, if that is the route you decide to go. There has been a number of debates in this forum about whether cancellation does or does not allow rebooking without reimbursement, this can be seen in the archive of this thread, and there's no point reheating that argument here.

However given the flight is so far off, it is for certain that at least one CW seat will come up for sale between now and then, and so I would hold off accepting the WTP offer and keep checking the flight, using ExpertFlyer to watch the buckets. As soon as you see J1 then you can jump in. You would still be entitled to reimbursement for downgrading, if you stick to the original flight number. However in terms of this question.....

There is of course no EC261 compensation for downgrades, just a reimbursement calculation explained at the top of the thread. It makes no difference to that calculation if you end up in WT, WTP or CW. However BA have in the past offered customer remediation - varying from very generous (e.g. YVR) to zero - for First downgrades. You should certainly ask YouFirst about this, though I suspect they will say "write to Customer Relations after the flight".

I hope you can reach a suitable agreement with BA on what happens next. If not, then you would need to think MCOL, not CEDR, since there is at least one CEDR staff member who simply doesn't understand the wording of the Regulation in this area, even though they are very clear.