Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
#1201
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If we were downgraded on the final leg of a flight LHR-PHL-CLT due to a delay--replacing a tire--that made us miss a connection in PHL and were put on the next flight, but downgraded to Y, do I contact BA or AA for the difference in fare on the PHL-CLT leg? (2.27 delay from originally scheduled arrival time in CLT)
#1202
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The slightly longer version from your previous posts is that the previous service LHR-DUS was a few hours late, but was then held overnight at DUS, and my suspicion was that the airport's curfew forced that to happen. To take this further you would need to argue that BA should have had the resources to get the aircraft into DUS soon enough to depart from DUS before the curfew. The second line of argument is that while weather and curfews count as extraordinary circumstances, recovery from them isn't, and that would apply if there was still a long delay next day, which I don't believe you can reasonably state. So if the weather issue was widespread, which turned out to be the case, then this doesn't look like the strongest case on this thread.
#1203
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I'm puzzled as to how a curfew could be considered an extraordinary circumstance, given that they're set in stone and everyone knows about them. Granted, unpredictable or extreme weather that could cause a flight to miss a curfew could be considered extraordinary, but the curfews themselves are a known quantity.
#1204
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I'm puzzled as to how a curfew could be considered an extraordinary circumstance, given that they're set in stone and everyone knows about them. Granted, unpredictable or extreme weather that could cause a flight to miss a curfew could be considered extraordinary, but the curfews themselves are a known quantity.
#1205
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Great, thanks--that was along what I was thinking. If anyone happens to know of any precedent, I'd appreciate any specific detail. Otherwise, time to get into the research!
#1206
This 'crew illness' issue is quite interesting.
A helpful member on Australian Frequent Flyer recently posted these two links:
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/blog/ju...y-compensation
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-...-crew-sickness
Basically, a court has previously ruled - against BA no less - that crew illness is not extraordinary.
A helpful member on Australian Frequent Flyer recently posted these two links:
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/blog/ju...y-compensation
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-...-crew-sickness
Basically, a court has previously ruled - against BA no less - that crew illness is not extraordinary.
#1207
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It would take a higher court ruling to make it binding. And I could see an airline taking this all the way to the Supreme Court if they felt it necessary.
#1208
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This 'crew illness' issue is quite interesting.
A helpful member on Australian Frequent Flyer recently posted these two links:
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/blog/ju...y-compensation
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-...-crew-sickness
Basically, a court has previously ruled - against BA no less - that crew illness is not extraordinary.
A helpful member on Australian Frequent Flyer recently posted these two links:
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/blog/ju...y-compensation
https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-...-crew-sickness
Basically, a court has previously ruled - against BA no less - that crew illness is not extraordinary.
District Court Judgments aren't binding on other judges. There could be dozens of other rulings that say the opposite. Of course Bott and Co are going to push the one they agree with,
It would take a higher court ruling to make it binding. And I could see an airline taking this all the way to the Supreme Court if they felt it necessary.
It would take a higher court ruling to make it binding. And I could see an airline taking this all the way to the Supreme Court if they felt it necessary.
Originally Posted by EC261
(12) The trouble and inconvenience to passengers caused by cancellation of flights should also be reduced. This should be achieved by inducing carriers to inform passengers of cancellations before the scheduled time of departure and in addition to offer them reasonable re-routing, so that the passengers can make other arrangements. Air carriers should compensate passengers if they fail to do this, except when the cancellation occurs in extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
(14) As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
(15) Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.
(14) As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
(15) Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.
Consequently, in grey areas such as these individual circumstances will always influence the court's view, and you simply can't rely on one judgment in one circumstance carrying over to another that might be slightly different and therefore fail the reasonableness test.
#1209
District Court Judgments aren't binding on other judges. There could be dozens of other rulings that say the opposite. Of course Bott and Co are going to push the one they agree with,
It would take a higher court ruling to make it binding. And I could see an airline taking this all the way to the Supreme Court if they felt it necessary.
It would take a higher court ruling to make it binding. And I could see an airline taking this all the way to the Supreme Court if they felt it necessary.
It needs to be recognised here that what is actually being determined, most likely, is not what constitutes extraordinary circumstances, but rather whether or not the airline took all reasonable measures in sections 12, 14 & 15.
At LGW and LHR, where BA has large bases and reserve crew, if they cancelled because of a crew shortage they would not have taken all reasonable measures. At LCY, with Cityflyer, there's a good argument the same applies - maybe also at JFK given the significance of the base in the operation. If a crew member fell ill on rotation at, say, OSL it would not be reasonable to expect BA to find another crew member at no notice.
Consequently, in grey areas such as these individual circumstances will always influence the court's view, and you simply can't rely on one judgment in one circumstance carrying over to another that might be slightly different and therefore fail the reasonableness test.
At LGW and LHR, where BA has large bases and reserve crew, if they cancelled because of a crew shortage they would not have taken all reasonable measures. At LCY, with Cityflyer, there's a good argument the same applies - maybe also at JFK given the significance of the base in the operation. If a crew member fell ill on rotation at, say, OSL it would not be reasonable to expect BA to find another crew member at no notice.
Consequently, in grey areas such as these individual circumstances will always influence the court's view, and you simply can't rely on one judgment in one circumstance carrying over to another that might be slightly different and therefore fail the reasonableness test.
So it appears the judge's view was that the airline had indeed not taken "all reasonable measures", even though the port was far from a hub.
#1210
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 49
British Airways: dishonesty and greed
We have avoided BA whenever possible for the past 2 years because of the dramatic decline of service standards . I was nevertheless booked on a flight from Rome to LHR 2 days ago. For hours we were kept on board (outside temp 33 degrees) as there was a technical problem. From conversation overheard it was clear that the flight would be cancelled but they withheld the information from passengers.They would offer passengers warm water from the tank---no other drinks were supplied and certainly no refreshments of any kind. Finally we were told the flight would operate only the following morning, It took HOURS to get accommodated in a cheap hotel near the airport. The following day, there was yet another long delay and absolutely no food or drink service on this 2 and a half hour flight. A lot of passengers were missing their new connections( rebooked as a result of the delay). I was in Club Europe: nothing to eat. BA only caters out of London and they are so cheap, insesitive and irresponsible that they won't spend a penny on buying in supplies if the return-catering fails owing to delays or other issues. My attempts to get compensation have so far been completely unsuccessful: the customer `service' is trained to `manage' complaints and do everything possible to trick people out of compensation. The pilots and the crew on the flight were kind, helpful and did everything possible to help. They however are the be let down most by this badly managed, failing airlines
#1211
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We have avoided BA whenever possible for the past 2 years because of the dramatic decline of service standards . I was nevertheless booked on a flight from Rome to LHR 2 days ago. For hours we were kept on board (outside temp 33 degrees) as there was a technical problem. From conversation overheard it was clear that the flight would be cancelled but they withheld the information from passengers.They would offer passengers warm water from the tank---no other drinks were supplied and certainly no refreshments of any kind. Finally we were told the flight would operate only the following morning, It took HOURS to get accommodated in a cheap hotel near the airport. The following day, there was yet another long delay and absolutely no food or drink service on this 2 and a half hour flight. A lot of passengers were missing their new connections( rebooked as a result of the delay). I was in Club Europe: nothing to eat. BA only caters out of London and they are so cheap, insesitive and irresponsible that they won't spend a penny on buying in supplies if the return-catering fails owing to delays or other issues. My attempts to get compensation have so far been completely unsuccessful: the customer `service' is trained to `manage' complaints and do everything possible to trick people out of compensation. The pilots and the crew on the flight were kind, helpful and did everything possible to help. They however are the be let down most by this badly managed, failing airlines
#1212
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#1213
Join Date: May 2016
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We were on BA0212 from Boston to LHR on Friday. Flight was delayed causing us to miss our connection to Brussels. Reason for delay was a bit murky. There was a t-storm but that was pretty much over at departure time. The first officer also mentioned something mechanical, something about paperwork due to the repairs and to top all this off they had to offload a bag. So what gives? Can anybody help out, Any chance for the eu compensation?
I asked this a few days ago, unfortunately no answer. Nobody knows?
Just bumping to be sure. Did put in the claim, I think. Not sure, was working on it when all of a sudden it was submitted and unfortunately I can’t find a way to see what is in the case that wa submitted so might just be the complaint about wheelchair assistance I was adding and not the eu claim.
#1215
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 49
The extent of the problem required urgent contact on the phone with customer service. A series of calls achieved nothing: the reference number was 'lost', the person who promised to call back did not...etc. all the usual staff presumably in the hope that the customer and the problem will somehow 'go away'