May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jul 31, 2018, 11:04 am
#1051
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
All of this confusion is the product of not providing all of the information. Those who rightfully questioned why OP was permitted to board at LHR now know that OP had spoken to BA and been rerouted such that she did not "no show" and thus have her ticket cancelled. Rather than arguing about compensation for the train ticket, it is simply an agreement by BA to reroute her and reimburse (not compensate) her for the train ticket.
BA will have all of that in the PNR notes and this should be quite easy. But, it will take some time because all of this is not obvious.
It may well be that the best reroute was train + plane given OP's time constraints. We can't know what availability via AMS (or even AMS-BOS) was on that day and without knowing that, one can't criticize the train + plane option.
This should all net OP a reimbursement of GBP 180 for the train ticket and, in theory, if she has receipts or the costs are reasonable, a couple of meals. Compensation though is almost certainly off the table, but BA might come through with some avios towards future flying, as a gesture.
BA will have all of that in the PNR notes and this should be quite easy. But, it will take some time because all of this is not obvious.
It may well be that the best reroute was train + plane given OP's time constraints. We can't know what availability via AMS (or even AMS-BOS) was on that day and without knowing that, one can't criticize the train + plane option.
This should all net OP a reimbursement of GBP 180 for the train ticket and, in theory, if she has receipts or the costs are reasonable, a couple of meals. Compensation though is almost certainly off the table, but BA might come through with some avios towards future flying, as a gesture.
'Our flight from Newcastle to Heathrow has been cancelled, we have a connection to catch'
'Oh no, sorry to hear that'
'On our booking, it is allowing us to change to a flight leaving the following day, this is too late for us'.
'Unfortunately all flights from Newcastle to London for today are either cancelled or fully booked'
'We are able to get a train into Heathrow which should just about get us there on time for the connection'
'Excellent. If you need to catch a train to get there for your flight to Boston, we'll cover the cost for you'.
End of conversation. While after reading this thread, both my partner and I can now see that BA must have 're-routed' us, and changed our ticket, they did not tell us they were doing this. It was simply 'if you can get here for the second part of the journey, great, we'll pay the train ticket for you'. I now understand that that will have been classed as a re-route, but because it was a 're-route' to the exact same place we were flying to anyway, it didn't seem obvious to either myself or my partner that that was the case. We have been treating the 2 separate flights as 2 separate journeys. Neither of us realised that because they're under the same ticket, BA will treat it as one.
Apologies for any confusion, we simply didn't realise we'd been re-routed, firstly because we were not told anything close to this by BA, simply 'If you can get to Heathrow for the second part of your journey then great, do that!' and secondly because we were going to Heathrow anyway, we didn't think this counted as re-routing. BA was supposed to get us to Heathrow, they didn't, so we did it ourselves. Had BA explained they were changing the tickets, this would have been significantly clearer, but that's not what they said at all, it was simply 'come to Heathrow if you can'.
Jul 31, 2018, 2:39 pm
#1052
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: BAEC silver
Posts: 464
Chris and Rachel I’m pleased you made you holiday despite the hassle at the start of the trip. It is a timely reminder that air travel isn’t like catching a bus, if you’ve a time critical arrival it is highly advisable to build in a buffer. Last week’s thunderstorms or another weather related event could have easily wrecked your trip with no blame on yourselves or the airline.
Jul 31, 2018, 2:46 pm
#1053
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
+1 to this. It can't be stressed too strongly. You either do this, or accept the risk that a small problem will totally wreck your holiday or other plans.
Jul 31, 2018, 3:54 pm
#1054
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Travel insurance advice
Hi,
I’m new to this so not really sure how to start a new post. Just s bit of advice really. My daughter was admitted to hospital whilst we were in Lanzarote, we was in there for 5 days. Whilst staying here only one person could stay with her in the evening so me and my partner both took it in turns staying with her. We only slept on the hotel, we didn’t use any facilities. The hotel said they would happily refund the money if we booked direct through them but both the travel agent and insurance are saying they will not pay out for this.
Is there any way around this and is it right to do?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou
I’m new to this so not really sure how to start a new post. Just s bit of advice really. My daughter was admitted to hospital whilst we were in Lanzarote, we was in there for 5 days. Whilst staying here only one person could stay with her in the evening so me and my partner both took it in turns staying with her. We only slept on the hotel, we didn’t use any facilities. The hotel said they would happily refund the money if we booked direct through them but both the travel agent and insurance are saying they will not pay out for this.
Is there any way around this and is it right to do?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou
Jul 31, 2018, 4:40 pm
#1055
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Don't take the word of either the hotel, the TA or the travel insurance, although I presume that you prepaid the hotel through the TA.
1. What does the TA's cancellation policy say? Does it cover circumstances such as yours where you were not sick, but you needed to stay with your daughter?
2. Same for the travel insurance. Many policies expressly cover expenses for a companion and would cover the cost of the hotel room whether you used it or not.
If you are not entitled to a refund or insurance coverage as the case may be, then it is simply a service gesture issue on the part of the hotel or the TA and neither seem willing to give, so that is the end of it.
It seems worth the time to carefully read the terms.
1. What does the TA's cancellation policy say? Does it cover circumstances such as yours where you were not sick, but you needed to stay with your daughter?
2. Same for the travel insurance. Many policies expressly cover expenses for a companion and would cover the cost of the hotel room whether you used it or not.
If you are not entitled to a refund or insurance coverage as the case may be, then it is simply a service gesture issue on the part of the hotel or the TA and neither seem willing to give, so that is the end of it.
It seems worth the time to carefully read the terms.
Jul 31, 2018, 4:40 pm
#1056
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
I hope your daughter is now feeling better.
Aug 3, 2018, 12:34 pm
#1057
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
You are drawing a flawed conclusion from that paragraph.
What it says is that Gibraltar airport is out of scope. It does not say that all flights which come into contact with it are not covered.
This is why the RAM example I cited is not covered.
But BA and easyjet flights certainly are.
I'm personally aware of probably well over 100 specific cases where BA have paid out. And I'm NOT aware of any cases where they have not.
I'm probably aware of 40+ cases where easyJet have paid out. While there have been some easyjet initial attempts to argue it doesn't apply they have to my knowledge NEVER held to that point when challenged on it (I will say I know of some cases where people didn't bother challenging them on it, but I know of no instances where when challenged easyJet did not ultimately back down).
(Also loads of Monarch cases too).
Anyone who has been rebuffed just needs to challenge them on it. Easyjet have generally given me lots of silly 261 arguments, where as BA uses robot replies to field first line enquires, I think U2 use people without much knowledge who look it up for themselves, you only get the proper people who know what they are talking about when pushed.
What it says is that Gibraltar airport is out of scope. It does not say that all flights which come into contact with it are not covered.
This is why the RAM example I cited is not covered.
But BA and easyjet flights certainly are.
I'm personally aware of probably well over 100 specific cases where BA have paid out. And I'm NOT aware of any cases where they have not.
I'm probably aware of 40+ cases where easyJet have paid out. While there have been some easyjet initial attempts to argue it doesn't apply they have to my knowledge NEVER held to that point when challenged on it (I will say I know of some cases where people didn't bother challenging them on it, but I know of no instances where when challenged easyJet did not ultimately back down).
(Also loads of Monarch cases too).
Anyone who has been rebuffed just needs to challenge them on it. Easyjet have generally given me lots of silly 261 arguments, where as BA uses robot replies to field first line enquires, I think U2 use people without much knowledge who look it up for themselves, you only get the proper people who know what they are talking about when pushed.
I have just joined flyertalk specifically to ask a question on this thread. I have 2 issues one more pressing than the other.
Easyjet flight from Gibraltar to UK was cancelled in April 2018. Weather was overcast, but actually not that bad, but locals and Google indicate that landing radar at Gib had not been operational for some time due to a rockfall.
Easyjet provided a flight home 2 days later from Malaga.
I booked a hotel for 2 nights in Gibraltar for 4 people.
Issue 1. I used a no win no fee company to claim EU261 compensation. Easyjet turned this down claiming weather. The company took it to CEDR.
CEDR came back and said that as it was Gibraltar then EU261 did not apply...end of. I can live with this and the weather may have won the day anyway.
Issue 2. I paid for a hire car, fuel, hotel for 4 and food for 2 nights and 3 days. I claimed for all of this on Easyjet's expenses system. Easyjet eventually came back and said they were paying for the car only. When asked why they were not paying for the hotel and food they said that this had been provided for free (unbeknown to me) via their 'disruption portal'. After the statutory time I made a claim for hotel and food with CEDR. Easyjet's response is now 'Gibraltar EU261 so not covered'.
If CEDR go the same way as Issue 1 the I will be seriously out of pocket.
Hence my interest in this part of this thread, yes it is Gibraltar but it is an EU airline flying to an EU destination. Where can I find more about this interpretation please. ?
andytw
Aug 3, 2018, 12:57 pm
#1058
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
Do you get EC 261 compensation if you get removed from flight (before take-off) due to an argument with a flight attendant and the airline fails to find a timely replacement flight ?
Aug 3, 2018, 1:00 pm
#1060
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,248
Aug 3, 2018, 1:00 pm
#1061
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
No, someone else on Flyertalk:
Husband, 10 & 12 year old daughters kicked off flight and abandoned in Rome
Husband, 10 & 12 year old daughters kicked off flight and abandoned in Rome
Aug 3, 2018, 1:03 pm
#1062
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
Your quote from @David-A was in reply to my earler post 13 upthread:
Originally Posted by CWS post 13
Hang on, I think that needs correction - as it is very misleading (in fact I'd say it is outright wrong) as it stands, especially since this post sits within the British Airways section of FT.
The question as always is where are you flying FROM, and/or who are you flying WITH.
The question as always is where are you flying FROM, and/or who are you flying WITH.
Originally Posted by EC261
3. Application of this Regulation to Gibraltar airport shall be suspended until the arrangements in the Joint Declaration made by the Foreign Ministers of the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom on 2 December 1987 enter into operation. The Governments of Spain and the United Kingdom will inform the Council of such date of entry into operation.
Aug 3, 2018, 1:06 pm
#1063
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
Yes, that is where the dispatch information came from.
Aug 3, 2018, 1:17 pm
#1064
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Welcome to Flyertalk andytw, welcome to the BA forum, it's good to see you here, albeit this is the BA forum. There is another place for easyJet via the Other European Airlines forum.
Your quote from @David-A was in reply to my earler post 13 upthread:
Now it is very possible that David-A has some insights into this that I don't have, but as far as I know Gibraltar remains outside EC261. CEDR's outcome is disappointing but what I would have expected, they are fairly conservative in their reading. Your two options are (a) MCOL , but with the risk that a judge may still agree with the outcome. It's possible you will be able to find some documentation that assists here (for example the Gibraltar government's law officers may know of some agreement here); or (b) at a pinch the Consumer Rights Act (see Dashboard) where you may be able to find some lines of argument. It does sound a fairly rotten outcome, I must say. It was to prevent abuses of this sort that the Regulation was introduced.
Your quote from @David-A was in reply to my earler post 13 upthread:
Now it is very possible that David-A has some insights into this that I don't have, but as far as I know Gibraltar remains outside EC261. CEDR's outcome is disappointing but what I would have expected, they are fairly conservative in their reading. Your two options are (a) MCOL , but with the risk that a judge may still agree with the outcome. It's possible you will be able to find some documentation that assists here (for example the Gibraltar government's law officers may know of some agreement here); or (b) at a pinch the Consumer Rights Act (see Dashboard) where you may be able to find some lines of argument. It does sound a fairly rotten outcome, I must say. It was to prevent abuses of this sort that the Regulation was introduced.
If I don't get Hotel and food costs via CEDR (which I paid for in full) then my next step will be insurance, but there are 4 of us, my wife and I will be one claim, one friend will be another claim and the other friend announced, when all this happened, that she had no insurance (we didn't believe it either) !! So that would all get pretty messy with excesses etc if they even want to let us claim.
Aug 3, 2018, 1:52 pm
#1065
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
If I don't get Hotel and food costs via CEDR (which I paid for in full) then my next step will be insurance, but there are 4 of us, my wife and I will be one claim, one friend will be another claim and the other friend announced, when all this happened, that she had no insurance (we didn't believe it either) !! So that would all get pretty messy with excesses etc if they even want to let us claim.