May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jun 20, 2018, 3:20 pm
#796
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,993
Hmmm ... maybe a UK address may not be needed:
...
34) Legal process
Hopefully you don’t need to worry about this section. We feel this is beyond the scope of our advice, however in broad terms there is a small claims process in the UK, which can be done in person or online through the MoneyClaim service –see reference material below. The online version can be undertaken even if you are not a UK resident. However be aware that this is a non trivial process. It will take time and effort to pursue.
34a) Alternatives to MCOL / legal processes
BA now participates in an independently run adjudication process run by CEDR. It has advantages and disadvantages over MCOL, but one clear advantage is that it doesn't appear to be restricted to those with a UK address, and there isn't a public hearing involved. This thread has more details and examples of it being used.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...cation-ba.html ...
34) Legal process
Hopefully you don’t need to worry about this section. We feel this is beyond the scope of our advice, however in broad terms there is a small claims process in the UK, which can be done in person or online through the MoneyClaim service –see reference material below. The online version can be undertaken even if you are not a UK resident. However be aware that this is a non trivial process. It will take time and effort to pursue.
34a) Alternatives to MCOL / legal processes
BA now participates in an independently run adjudication process run by CEDR. It has advantages and disadvantages over MCOL, but one clear advantage is that it doesn't appear to be restricted to those with a UK address, and there isn't a public hearing involved. This thread has more details and examples of it being used.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...cation-ba.html ...
Jun 20, 2018, 7:09 pm
#797
Join Date: May 2017
Location: KUL, LON
Programs: BA GGL, Bonvoy Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 56
Sorry for asking this here as it relates to a QF operated flight, but it would appear posters here are way more familiar with EC261 and my question pertains to EC261 in general, rather than the carriers specifically.
So I'm on the return leg of a ticket, flying LHR-SIN (QF) followed by SIN-HND (JL) 8.5 hours later. LHR-SIN is now delayed 11 hours so I will almost definitely miss SIN-HND. I planned to have a brief meeting in SIN (thus the long stop) so it's crucial that any rerouting includes SIN rather than going to HND directly on another carrier or via somewhere else (if it is even offered). Returning to HND is not important to me as it is not my actual final destination (although it would be on this ticket). I have another flight on a separate ticket onward from HND to my final destination.
My questions are:
1. If I am offered rerouting to HND on a different carrier which gets me there before the original scheduled arrival time (easy to do if SIN is bypassed especially given the long stop I have there), and I decline it, because I want the original routing via SIN, am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
2. If I stay on the QF LHR-SIN flight delayed 11 hours, JL will need to rebook me for the original SIN-HND sector. If I can convince them to change the routing direct to my final destination and they agree (thus changing it from HND), am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
So I'm on the return leg of a ticket, flying LHR-SIN (QF) followed by SIN-HND (JL) 8.5 hours later. LHR-SIN is now delayed 11 hours so I will almost definitely miss SIN-HND. I planned to have a brief meeting in SIN (thus the long stop) so it's crucial that any rerouting includes SIN rather than going to HND directly on another carrier or via somewhere else (if it is even offered). Returning to HND is not important to me as it is not my actual final destination (although it would be on this ticket). I have another flight on a separate ticket onward from HND to my final destination.
My questions are:
1. If I am offered rerouting to HND on a different carrier which gets me there before the original scheduled arrival time (easy to do if SIN is bypassed especially given the long stop I have there), and I decline it, because I want the original routing via SIN, am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
2. If I stay on the QF LHR-SIN flight delayed 11 hours, JL will need to rebook me for the original SIN-HND sector. If I can convince them to change the routing direct to my final destination and they agree (thus changing it from HND), am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
Jun 20, 2018, 7:41 pm
#798
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
My questions are:
1. If I am offered rerouting to HND on a different carrier which gets me there before the original scheduled arrival time (easy to do if SIN is bypassed especially given the long stop I have there), and I decline it, because I want the original routing via SIN, am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
2. If I stay on the QF LHR-SIN flight delayed 11 hours, JL will need to rebook me for the original SIN-HND sector. If I can convince them to change the routing direct to my final destination and they agree (thus changing it from HND), am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
1. If I am offered rerouting to HND on a different carrier which gets me there before the original scheduled arrival time (easy to do if SIN is bypassed especially given the long stop I have there), and I decline it, because I want the original routing via SIN, am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
2. If I stay on the QF LHR-SIN flight delayed 11 hours, JL will need to rebook me for the original SIN-HND sector. If I can convince them to change the routing direct to my final destination and they agree (thus changing it from HND), am I still entitled to EC261 compensation?
(2) not sure - possibly not
Jun 20, 2018, 9:36 pm
#799
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,837
(1) No.
(2) No
(2) No
Jun 20, 2018, 9:38 pm
#800
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP (3MM), DL PM, BONVOY TITANIUM, HYATT GLOBALIST, HILTON DIAMOND, IHG DIAMOND AMB, et al
Posts: 5,913
My EU claim was denied today by BA after waiting 6+ weeks to hear back...
BA denied the EU claim, citing, it "was due to a problem with the stand allocation" and thus BA was "not liable for a compensation payment in this case." Does this seem correct to you? While we did wait 30 minutes for a gate this is not what ultimately caused the misconnect. There were a number of factors directly within BA's control that ultimately had a much great impact in deplaning late. Is there any mechanism to appeal within BA?
BA denied the EU claim, citing, it "was due to a problem with the stand allocation" and thus BA was "not liable for a compensation payment in this case." Does this seem correct to you? While we did wait 30 minutes for a gate this is not what ultimately caused the misconnect. There were a number of factors directly within BA's control that ultimately had a much great impact in deplaning late. Is there any mechanism to appeal within BA?
Yes, this isn't extraordinary circumstances, and even if it was, clearly there was more BA could have done to have prevented your irrop. So I think you have a decent claim if you are prepared to pursue it, though it may need you to start the CEDR or MCOL process. See the steps at the start of this thread.
When you say Flight Connections, I presume this was before getting on the bus (the AA agents there)? If so, and in the unlikely event this happens again, it's best to ignore all the staff shouting and go straight to the T3 gate.
When you say Flight Connections, I presume this was before getting on the bus (the AA agents there)? If so, and in the unlikely event this happens again, it's best to ignore all the staff shouting and go straight to the T3 gate.
-FlyerBeek
Jun 21, 2018, 3:04 am
#801
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,944
Regarding flight connections, I was not permitted to board the bus and was sent back upstairs in T5 to be rebooked. I still had 40 minutes until scheduled departure while in the bus queue, so there's a small chance I could have made it to T3 and through security with enough time to make my AA flight.
-FlyerBeek
-FlyerBeek
Jun 21, 2018, 9:10 am
#802
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Programs: AAdvantage, and BAEC in name only
Posts: 802
Anyone know of any tricks to get files uploaded to CEDR?
They have requested copies of correspondence, but It seems to be a challenge - to put it politely!
They have requested copies of correspondence, but It seems to be a challenge - to put it politely!
Jun 22, 2018, 9:16 am
#803
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 21
I (my friend really) need some help!
A friend of mine was due to leave Lisbon with a LIS (BA)-LHR (CX)-HKG itin, purchased on Expedia.
During check in, a BA Ground Crew has attached a barcode to one of his belongings - an iMac in original box inside that was to be scanned by security. My friend arrived at the security area but the barcode did not scan through. It took some time to resolve and ultimately my friend was unable to catch the flight.
BA proposed to reissue the ticket to let him fly tomorrow, 23/06, which means a minimum delay of 24 hours. My friend did not accept and proposed to leave on 25/06 due to personal reasons. BA has accepted.
Questions:
1) Is EC261 applicable? (I assume not)
2) Does BA have any duty of care? If so, how long?
A friend of mine was due to leave Lisbon with a LIS (BA)-LHR (CX)-HKG itin, purchased on Expedia.
During check in, a BA Ground Crew has attached a barcode to one of his belongings - an iMac in original box inside that was to be scanned by security. My friend arrived at the security area but the barcode did not scan through. It took some time to resolve and ultimately my friend was unable to catch the flight.
BA proposed to reissue the ticket to let him fly tomorrow, 23/06, which means a minimum delay of 24 hours. My friend did not accept and proposed to leave on 25/06 due to personal reasons. BA has accepted.
Questions:
1) Is EC261 applicable? (I assume not)
2) Does BA have any duty of care? If so, how long?
Jun 22, 2018, 10:21 am
#804
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Programs: AAdvantage, and BAEC in name only
Posts: 802
My niece and her friend were the travellers, and are UK residents. She is young and the MCOL option may seem a bit intimdating, CEDR probably less so. I have also never done either so we are not as confident as many on here!
We believe the original BA flight arrived more than 6 hours late.
Thanks to all for your help with this - much appreciated!
.
We believe the original BA flight arrived more than 6 hours late.
Thanks to all for your help with this - much appreciated!
.
Thanks again to everyone on here for the excellent advice.
Jun 22, 2018, 11:17 am
#805
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,779
During check in, a BA Ground Crew has attached a barcode to one of his belongings - an iMac in original box inside that was to be scanned by security. My friend arrived at the security area but the barcode did not scan through. It took some time to resolve and ultimately my friend was unable to catch the flight.
BA proposed to reissue the ticket to let him fly tomorrow, 23/06, which means a minimum delay of 24 hours. My friend did not accept and proposed to leave on 25/06 due to personal reasons. BA has accepted.
Questions:
1) Is EC261 applicable? (I assume not)
2) Does BA have any duty of care? If so, how long?
BA proposed to reissue the ticket to let him fly tomorrow, 23/06, which means a minimum delay of 24 hours. My friend did not accept and proposed to leave on 25/06 due to personal reasons. BA has accepted.
Questions:
1) Is EC261 applicable? (I assume not)
2) Does BA have any duty of care? If so, how long?
Jun 22, 2018, 2:45 pm
#806
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP (3MM), DL PM, BONVOY TITANIUM, HYATT GLOBALIST, HILTON DIAMOND, IHG DIAMOND AMB, et al
Posts: 5,913
I suspect you saw the AA agents who were asking everyone if they were travelling on AA and you showed them your bp? And they then told you that you were too late? On that point for future reference note that there is absolutely no requirement to show a bp before boarding an airside transfer bus, you can just join the queue for your bus without speaking to anyone and go to T3 as cws has noted.
-FlyerBeek
Jun 22, 2018, 2:53 pm
#807
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Refused EC261 Claim
British Airways have refused to pay my claim for compensation when my flight BA877 from TLL to LHR on 15 June 2018 suffered a technical issue on arrival in Tallin, ahead of its 21:30 departure time. The captain himself came to the podium at the gate and told us there was a warning light for the avionics system and an engineer had been called. He eventually arrived and sometime later the captain returned to tell us that they needed to take the plane to a remote part of the airport to perform some engine tests. Eventually, at 00:22, we were told we would be going to a hotel. Our flight was rescheduled for the next day at 2pm and we finally arrived a Heathrow on the 16th at 15:11. The captain told us that although the issue had been fixed, we couldn't fly that evening as LHR was closed for the night and the crew also needed 12 hours of rest. So on paper that's a delayed arrival of well over 3 hours. No brainer you would think.
But BA refused my claim: Your claim for EU has been refused because BA0877 on 15 June was delayed because of operational circumstances outside of our control, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
I am still waiting for BA to reply to my question as to why they think that is the case, but a couple of tweets to them in the meantime has resulted in these responses:
We're sorry you're disappointed by this. I'm afraid the technical delay only contributed 171 minutes of the overall flight delay on BA0877. This does mean it's not payable under EU regulations.
To be eligible for EU compensation, the technical delay minutes would need to be 180 minutes or more. The total length of the delay wouldn't make this eligible and I'm sorry for the disappointment this has caused.
I have just gone through the actual statue and its interpretation guide and there is no mention of the amount of time a technical issue contributes to a delay. All I can find is references to how the delay is based on the actual time of arrival versus the scheduled time. I suspect they are going to state the LHR's refusal to let them land in the early hours and/or their staff running out of hours is an exceptional circumstance. If they do, I'd argue that LHR's night-time closures is a fact that they need to take into account when planning, as is their staff rest policy. Neither are therefore exceptional circumstance, nor was the technical issue that caused the original delay.
While I wait for BA's official response, can any one provide any more insights or advice?
But BA refused my claim: Your claim for EU has been refused because BA0877 on 15 June was delayed because of operational circumstances outside of our control, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
I am still waiting for BA to reply to my question as to why they think that is the case, but a couple of tweets to them in the meantime has resulted in these responses:
We're sorry you're disappointed by this. I'm afraid the technical delay only contributed 171 minutes of the overall flight delay on BA0877. This does mean it's not payable under EU regulations.
To be eligible for EU compensation, the technical delay minutes would need to be 180 minutes or more. The total length of the delay wouldn't make this eligible and I'm sorry for the disappointment this has caused.
I have just gone through the actual statue and its interpretation guide and there is no mention of the amount of time a technical issue contributes to a delay. All I can find is references to how the delay is based on the actual time of arrival versus the scheduled time. I suspect they are going to state the LHR's refusal to let them land in the early hours and/or their staff running out of hours is an exceptional circumstance. If they do, I'd argue that LHR's night-time closures is a fact that they need to take into account when planning, as is their staff rest policy. Neither are therefore exceptional circumstance, nor was the technical issue that caused the original delay.
While I wait for BA's official response, can any one provide any more insights or advice?
Last edited by brittraveller68; Jun 22, 2018 at 3:26 pm
Jun 22, 2018, 3:11 pm
#808
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Give 14 days notice and get on with MCOL. If the plane was defective and due to being repaired you missed the cut off or staff ran out of hours then it's the airline's issue.
Jun 22, 2018, 6:19 pm
#809
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,779
You may want to have a look at post 1745 above, link below, and the advice that follows, it seems you are not the only one to get this reply.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jun 23, 2018, 5:34 am
#810
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Thanks for the welcome. I did click on the link, posted a reply using the quote feature, but when I submitted it, I got a message to say you can only include links in a message after 5 posts. Now I'm not sure if that was for general information or telling me that my post actually hadn't been accepted. I hadn't knowingly included a link, unless a quote counts. But when I try to view that post again via the link you provided, my browser returns a page not found message.