May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
May 31, 2018, 2:35 am
#661
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I think that was and is established in law by the Steef Mennens case anyway, but that CJEU ruling came after this DOT complaint started. It's a very useful thread for showing the calculations and the methods involved, so many thanks to seawolf for posting the link, it will help other cases.
However what I find beyond strange is why BA didn't simply say "AA is the operating carrier, over to them" (and they would then have got next to nothing back, $200 is my calculation). Reading between the lines it appears to be due to the complainant (who was somewhat unrealistic on a range of points) getting a rebooking into World Traveller even though BA had said "we're overbooked, AA don't send us any more passengers". It's rare for me to be sympathetic to BA on their EC261 handling but this is quite a stretch by the complainant.
However what I find beyond strange is why BA didn't simply say "AA is the operating carrier, over to them" (and they would then have got next to nothing back, $200 is my calculation). Reading between the lines it appears to be due to the complainant (who was somewhat unrealistic on a range of points) getting a rebooking into World Traveller even though BA had said "we're overbooked, AA don't send us any more passengers". It's rare for me to be sympathetic to BA on their EC261 handling but this is quite a stretch by the complainant.
AA was not the operating carrier - once AA rebooked them onto BA , then BA was the operating carrier
If AA booked passenger into business class successfully, then the downgrade after that is a BA responsibility
May 31, 2018, 2:39 am
#662
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Cancellations and delays are two very different things and it's best to separate them out. But both can lead to Article 7 compensation, but in essence if you arrive early you are looking at 50% compensation, so 300€ on longhauls. However if this was a very recent cancellation I would lay money on this being a weather related incident.
May 31, 2018, 2:50 am
#663
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Yes, that I agree with, but what I meant was that had BA had quickly zero'd out the AA SABRE allocation of J and C fares, it would never have had to deal with this extended overbooking. What happens - particularly at LAX - is that BA realises it is overbooked (due to an unrelated irrop) it finds it almost impossible to nimbly close off the SABRE fare buckets, instead it sends a message over to their AA colleagues in LAX to not rebook anyone. However that message doesn't go to the AA contact centre (or the message doesn't get distributed), the SABRE fare buckets are still open, the AA agents are unaware of BA's message and then people turn up in TBIT with infeasible tickets. So AA's cancellation (with no EC261 cover) ends up being BA's problem.
May 31, 2018, 3:24 am
#664
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Cancellations and delays are two very different things and it's best to separate them out. But both can lead to Article 7 compensation, but in essence if you arrive early you are looking at 50% compensation, so 300€ on longhauls. However if this was a very recent cancellation I would lay money on this being a weather related incident.
I did also read up on the PDF and found indeed, because the service was cancelled and he was rerouted he would be entitled to compensation. As the service was not delayed it would be 50%. In his case 2 pax at 125 euro per pax for the single ticketed sector on miles from AMS to LHR. His flight onwards is on a separate booking.
The cancellation of his flight was known a day before.. I heard about the weather but that was yesterday.. sure it takes time to position aircraft but it seems to be a bit of an indirect consequence as other flights operate. I Guess I need to ask him why the BA433 was cancelled. The official reason was not communicated.
Globalist
Last edited by Globalist; May 31, 2018 at 9:45 am
May 31, 2018, 6:33 am
#665
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 4
I got an update regarding cancelled flight BA704 from 8th May. British Airways is saying that it was because of industrial action that was carried out by Italian Air Travel authorities. They are also saying that this BA704 flight was scheduled to travel over Italian airspace and this affected the flight and resulted in the cancellation.
I have checked past 40 flights of BA704 and none of them was routed over Italian airspace. Is it possible to verify somehow that this flight was really some sort of exception and was planned to travel over Italian airspace?
I have checked past 40 flights of BA704 and none of them was routed over Italian airspace. Is it possible to verify somehow that this flight was really some sort of exception and was planned to travel over Italian airspace?
Last edited by inew; May 31, 2018 at 6:52 am
May 31, 2018, 7:03 am
#666
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Yes, that I agree with, but what I meant was that had BA had quickly zero'd out the AA SABRE allocation of J and C fares, it would never have had to deal with this extended overbooking. What happens - particularly at LAX - is that BA realises it is overbooked (due to an unrelated irrop) it finds it almost impossible to nimbly close off the SABRE fare buckets, instead it sends a message over to their AA colleagues in LAX to not rebook anyone. However that message doesn't go to the AA contact centre (or the message doesn't get distributed), the SABRE fare buckets are still open, the AA agents are unaware of BA's message and then people turn up in TBIT with infeasible tickets. So AA's cancellation (with no EC261 cover) ends up being BA's problem.
It can't blame a travel agent for booking a ticket when the system is showing availability
May 31, 2018, 7:11 am
#667
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I would say you have done all the research you need to do here. You are clearly unconvinced by BA's answer and if you move it to either CEDR or MCOL it would be up to the airline to prove its case, rather than for you to disprove it. Ask for a deadlock letter. It's rare for BA to change its mind from an initial response (though it does happen) however I can see you spending a lot of time swapping messages.
Jun 1, 2018, 2:06 am
#668
Join Date: Jul 2009
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A hypothetical which doesn't seem to be in the extensive FAQs:
If I am booked in WT+, find that it is oversold, and have been downgraded to WT, I assume I can insist on being rebooked on a later flight in WT+. If I do this, am I entitled to overnight accommodation and EC261 delay compensation if the next available flight is the following day?
If I am booked in WT+, find that it is oversold, and have been downgraded to WT, I assume I can insist on being rebooked on a later flight in WT+. If I do this, am I entitled to overnight accommodation and EC261 delay compensation if the next available flight is the following day?
Jun 1, 2018, 2:18 am
#669
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If I am booked in WT+, find that it is oversold, and have been downgraded to WT, I assume I can insist on being rebooked on a later flight in WT+. If I do this, am I entitled to overnight accommodation and EC261 delay compensation if the next available flight is the following day?
Jun 1, 2018, 4:42 am
#670
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 561
Thanks very much for this. Assuming then that from an EC261 perspective if I declined a rebooking in WT and requested a later flight in WT+ that would ultimately have been my own choice and therefore ineligible for EC261 delay compensation?
Jun 1, 2018, 4:52 am
#671
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It moves you from a clear cut position to a more complex argument about rerouting under comparable transport conditions. It doesn't rule it out by any means, but in practical and pragmatic terms I would advocate the approach outlined in my previous post.
Jun 1, 2018, 1:51 pm
#672
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Recent BA/OpenSkies flight to Paris canceled. We were going to be traveling in PremPlus both ways. Got rerouted on Aer Lingus in economy through Dublin to CDG instead of Orly, only got to Paris a half hour later, but had to depart 3 hours earlier. On the way back, the 757 was replaced by the OpenSkies 767 and we were assigned new seats (albeit still together, but not the ones I had paid for seat assignment, obviously).
BA has already sent me the 2 $49 credits for the seat assignment fees for the flight over.
As I see it, I get the following compensation also:
1) 2 of us X 600Euros 261 compensation for the cancellation, and reassignment to a flight more than 2 hours earlier.
2) 2 X 75% of the one-way fare on the EWR to ORY segment, for the downgrade from Premium Economy to Economy.
3) Refund of the $49 seat assignment fees for the flight back, since I was not given the seats we had paid for. I probably would not even ask for this, but for the fact that the 767 has 38" pitch in PremPlus which is mediocre, vs. the 47" pitch in PremPlus on the 757 (which has been, of course, the photo of PremPlus they use on the website). But I think we are clearly entitled to this, so am requesting it.
Anyone disagree with any of this evaluation? Thanks.
BA has already sent me the 2 $49 credits for the seat assignment fees for the flight over.
As I see it, I get the following compensation also:
1) 2 of us X 600Euros 261 compensation for the cancellation, and reassignment to a flight more than 2 hours earlier.
2) 2 X 75% of the one-way fare on the EWR to ORY segment, for the downgrade from Premium Economy to Economy.
3) Refund of the $49 seat assignment fees for the flight back, since I was not given the seats we had paid for. I probably would not even ask for this, but for the fact that the 767 has 38" pitch in PremPlus which is mediocre, vs. the 47" pitch in PremPlus on the 757 (which has been, of course, the photo of PremPlus they use on the website). But I think we are clearly entitled to this, so am requesting it.
Anyone disagree with any of this evaluation? Thanks.
Jun 1, 2018, 3:41 pm
#673
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1) 2 of us X 600Euros 261 compensation for the cancellation, and reassignment to a flight more than 2 hours earlier.
2) 2 X 75% of the one-way fare on the EWR to ORY segment, for the downgrade from Premium Economy to Economy.
3) Refund of the $49 seat assignment fees for the flight back, since I was not given the seats we had paid for. I probably would not even ask for this, but for the fact that the 767 has 38" pitch in PremPlus which is mediocre, vs. the 47" pitch in PremPlus on the 757 (which has been, of course, the photo of PremPlus they use on the website). But I think we are clearly entitled to this, so am requesting it.
2) 2 X 75% of the one-way fare on the EWR to ORY segment, for the downgrade from Premium Economy to Economy.
3) Refund of the $49 seat assignment fees for the flight back, since I was not given the seats we had paid for. I probably would not even ask for this, but for the fact that the 767 has 38" pitch in PremPlus which is mediocre, vs. the 47" pitch in PremPlus on the 757 (which has been, of course, the photo of PremPlus they use on the website). But I think we are clearly entitled to this, so am requesting it.
Jun 3, 2018, 4:17 pm
#674
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 8
Hello again ! 
Of course I didn't forget about you guys :P
Last Friday I got an email from British Airways telling me that my claim has been approved and they will send my 1800 Euros in the next few days.
No extra money for car rental and phone bill, but hey, the ticket for the whole family was 900 euro so no complain from my side.
Thank you for the information and help I got from you !
Of course I didn't forget about you guys :P
Last Friday I got an email from British Airways telling me that my claim has been approved and they will send my 1800 Euros in the next few days.
No extra money for car rental and phone bill, but hey, the ticket for the whole family was 900 euro so no complain from my side.
Thank you for the information and help I got from you !
Jun 4, 2018, 7:54 am
#675
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1) It will be BA to claim against.
2) Assuming it was a through reservation it would be LHR-TFS.
3) Ah, well if you missed the flight due to the slot restriction then yes BA will say it's not their problem. If you missed the flight due to poor handling of the baggage issue and IB handling at MAD then that isn't extraordinary circumstances. Since BA has an arguable case, don't be surprised if they use that argument, equally you are able to use your lines of argument back. However there is no requirement in the Regulation to rush you through MAD, and security will take as long as it takes - again not a BA or IB issue. So I don't think you can rely on that aspect unfortunately. This isn't a clear cut case unfortunately.
2) Assuming it was a through reservation it would be LHR-TFS.
3) Ah, well if you missed the flight due to the slot restriction then yes BA will say it's not their problem. If you missed the flight due to poor handling of the baggage issue and IB handling at MAD then that isn't extraordinary circumstances. Since BA has an arguable case, don't be surprised if they use that argument, equally you are able to use your lines of argument back. However there is no requirement in the Regulation to rush you through MAD, and security will take as long as it takes - again not a BA or IB issue. So I don't think you can rely on that aspect unfortunately. This isn't a clear cut case unfortunately.
I need some advice re EC261 claim process as I am unsure which airline to contact.
I had a LHR-MAD-TFS on IB plated ticket. BA outbound to Madrid was delayed- they were ready to push back, they found one passenger missing, took time to offload his bag, lost the slot which resulted in a 90 min delay in departure and 100 min delay in arrival. When we arrived at the gate in MAD, IB flight had closed (we just about made it but IB said flight literally closed when we were near the gate). We were put up in hotel by IB and arrived at our destination 12 hours late.
Questions:
1. Who do I contact for the claim- BA (which caused the delay) or IB which was to take us to TFS from MAD (which rebooked us on the next morning's flight which was the earliest available and had duty of care in MAD)?
2. What band does the flight fall into- Band 1 (LHR-MAD) or band 2 (LHR-TFS)?
3. Can BA claim circumstances outside its control in this case- it was initial BA cockup that it took 30-40 minutes to find and offload the bag and lost the slot. I checked other T5 departures around the same time on the day of travel- all left more or less on time, our flight was the worst affected.
However, we could have made it if IB was a bit proactive. There was zero effort from IB to help with connections- nobody was at arrival gates to help pax with connections, passport control was quick but security was a nightmare (only one lane with close to 60-70 pax ahead of us when we arrived after the train ride) and they left about 12-15 pax stranded to TFS as they closed the gate bang on time (and arrived 30 mins early at TFS) .
I had lost one night's hotel accommodation at Ritz Carlon as well as we arrived one day late (north of EUR 800 per night), which Amex insurance has reimbursed.
TIA for help.
I had a LHR-MAD-TFS on IB plated ticket. BA outbound to Madrid was delayed- they were ready to push back, they found one passenger missing, took time to offload his bag, lost the slot which resulted in a 90 min delay in departure and 100 min delay in arrival. When we arrived at the gate in MAD, IB flight had closed (we just about made it but IB said flight literally closed when we were near the gate). We were put up in hotel by IB and arrived at our destination 12 hours late.
Questions:
1. Who do I contact for the claim- BA (which caused the delay) or IB which was to take us to TFS from MAD (which rebooked us on the next morning's flight which was the earliest available and had duty of care in MAD)?
2. What band does the flight fall into- Band 1 (LHR-MAD) or band 2 (LHR-TFS)?
3. Can BA claim circumstances outside its control in this case- it was initial BA cockup that it took 30-40 minutes to find and offload the bag and lost the slot. I checked other T5 departures around the same time on the day of travel- all left more or less on time, our flight was the worst affected.
However, we could have made it if IB was a bit proactive. There was zero effort from IB to help with connections- nobody was at arrival gates to help pax with connections, passport control was quick but security was a nightmare (only one lane with close to 60-70 pax ahead of us when we arrived after the train ride) and they left about 12-15 pax stranded to TFS as they closed the gate bang on time (and arrived 30 mins early at TFS) .
I had lost one night's hotel accommodation at Ritz Carlon as well as we arrived one day late (north of EUR 800 per night), which Amex insurance has reimbursed.
TIA for help.