May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Apr 17, 2018, 12:38 pm
#466
Join Date: May 2013
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I understand the line of thought but without detailed knowledge of the airline's operating diagrams and crew positioning I'd be surprised if you got anywhere.
Apr 17, 2018, 1:05 pm
#467
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While I agree, and I am not optimistic, the one aspect in the passenger's favour is that if it got to MCOL it would be BA's responsibility to prove this, and not the passenger's job to disprove it.
Apr 17, 2018, 3:57 pm
#468
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Apr 17, 2018, 4:00 pm
#469
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The snow came on Sunday and I think the whole program ground to a halt by mid-afternoon with BA cancelling pretty much all flights for the afternoon and evening. It is certainly not surprising crew and aircraft were out of position on Monday even if the snow itself has ceased to be an issue.
Last edited by KARFA; Apr 18, 2018 at 2:35 am Reason: Typo
Apr 18, 2018, 3:54 am
#470
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
Minor update on my case
My Mixed Fleet strike cancellation case was transferred to my local court ignoring BA preference.
I'll update this thread when I hear from BA/courts.
Apr 18, 2018, 4:17 am
#471
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Thanks for that reference Temych, very useful.
In terms of your own case, I would send a note to the Clerk of your Court asking that the recent CJEU ruling on "Krüsemann and others versus TUIfly GmbH" is brought to the Court's (ie. judge's) attention. You could also send a note to BA Legal asking them to make you an offer.
=====
I think this ruling has two major implications, though the second could be said just to underline current understanding.
1) For strikes purely within BA or BA's direct suppliers (I'm thinking of Italian ground agents), then extraordinary circumstances cannot be applied to avoid Article 7 compensation (the 600€ bit). The wording in sections 40 to 42 inclusive is crystal clear:
In terms of your own case, I would send a note to the Clerk of your Court asking that the recent CJEU ruling on "Krüsemann and others versus TUIfly GmbH" is brought to the Court's (ie. judge's) attention. You could also send a note to BA Legal asking them to make you an offer.
=====
I think this ruling has two major implications, though the second could be said just to underline current understanding.
1) For strikes purely within BA or BA's direct suppliers (I'm thinking of Italian ground agents), then extraordinary circumstances cannot be applied to avoid Article 7 compensation (the 600€ bit). The wording in sections 40 to 42 inclusive is crystal clear:
As correctly noted by the European Commission in its written observations, the restructuring and reorganisation of undertakings are part of the normal management of those entities.
Thus, air carriers may, as a matter of course, when carrying out of their activity, face disagreements or conflicts with all or part of their members of staff.
Therefore, under the conditions referred to in paragraphs 38 and 39 [CWS: corporate restructuring] of this judgment, the risks arising from the social consequences that go with such measures must be regarded as inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned.
2) The bar for extraordinary circumstances is getting higher and higher for airlines. Nothing new here but every recent judgement has underlined first the consumer protection role above all else. In that respect I highlight - out of sequence - two paragraphs from CJEU ruling which can be perhaps used in other cases. Firstly paragraph 34:Thus, air carriers may, as a matter of course, when carrying out of their activity, face disagreements or conflicts with all or part of their members of staff.
Therefore, under the conditions referred to in paragraphs 38 and 39 [CWS: corporate restructuring] of this judgment, the risks arising from the social consequences that go with such measures must be regarded as inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned.
In that regard, the Court has already had occasion to hold that the circumstances referred to in this recital are not necessarily and automatically grounds of exemption from the obligation to pay compensation provided for in Article 5(1)(c) of Regulation No 261/2004 (see, to that effect, judgment of 22 December 2008, Wallentin-Hermann, C‑549/07, EU:C:2008:771, paragraph 22) and that, consequently, it is necessary to assess, on a case by case basis, if it fulfils the two cumulative conditions recalled in paragraph 32 of the present judgment.
and then paragraph 32 give the those two cumulative conditions:May be classified as ‘extraordinary circumstances’, within the meaning of Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004, all events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control (judgment of 4 May 2017, Pešková and Peška, C‑315/15, EU:C:2017:342, paragraph 22 and the case-law cited).
Apr 18, 2018, 5:44 am
#472
Join Date: May 2013
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Looks like once again the airlines have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do what is right for the consumer. Of course strikes and industrial relations are within the remit of the airline, and this really is the inevitable outcome.
As an interesting contrast I was on a rail journey recently in the UK, the train was over an hour late and at every stop the on board manager reminded people to claim compensation via online ''delay repay'. There was also a message shown on the revolving matrix display in the carriage.
Why can't the airlines do similar? The commander of the aircraft must be conversant with the reasons for delay, and with limited means of access/egress to the cabin it would not be within the wit of man for airline staff to hand a single sheet of A4 to passengers on leaving the aircraft with details of how to claim.
As an interesting contrast I was on a rail journey recently in the UK, the train was over an hour late and at every stop the on board manager reminded people to claim compensation via online ''delay repay'. There was also a message shown on the revolving matrix display in the carriage.
Why can't the airlines do similar? The commander of the aircraft must be conversant with the reasons for delay, and with limited means of access/egress to the cabin it would not be within the wit of man for airline staff to hand a single sheet of A4 to passengers on leaving the aircraft with details of how to claim.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:01 am
#473
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
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The question is if any are valid, They key time is doors open, you need to get BA (if they don't do the right thing) to state what the fastest time an A380 at T5 can dock - this will push you well past the :29 brakes on time.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:40 am
#474
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They will refuse the claim for many different and mostly made-up reasons.
The question is if any are valid, They key time is doors open, you need to get BA (if they don't do the right thing) to state what the fastest time an A380 at T5 can dock - this will push you well past the :29 brakes on time.
The question is if any are valid, They key time is doors open, you need to get BA (if they don't do the right thing) to state what the fastest time an A380 at T5 can dock - this will push you well past the :29 brakes on time.
Apr 18, 2018, 10:05 am
#475
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Looks like once again the airlines have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do what is right for the consumer. Of course strikes and industrial relations are within the remit of the airline, and this really is the inevitable outcome.
As an interesting contrast I was on a rail journey recently in the UK, the train was over an hour late and at every stop the on board manager reminded people to claim compensation via online ''delay repay'. There was also a message shown on the revolving matrix display in the carriage.
Why can't the airlines do similar? The commander of the aircraft must be conversant with the reasons for delay, and with limited means of access/egress to the cabin it would not be within the wit of man for airline staff to hand a single sheet of A4 to passengers on leaving the aircraft with details of how to claim.
As an interesting contrast I was on a rail journey recently in the UK, the train was over an hour late and at every stop the on board manager reminded people to claim compensation via online ''delay repay'. There was also a message shown on the revolving matrix display in the carriage.
Why can't the airlines do similar? The commander of the aircraft must be conversant with the reasons for delay, and with limited means of access/egress to the cabin it would not be within the wit of man for airline staff to hand a single sheet of A4 to passengers on leaving the aircraft with details of how to claim.
Apr 18, 2018, 10:10 am
#476
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Update on my claim for four of us being re-routed to London Southend which caused us to need to overnight in London, due to weather issues: BA is making us 90% whole, which is a LOT more than I expected, so I'm a happy camper. Time from query to response was just over two weeks.
Apr 18, 2018, 10:15 am
#477
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Apr 18, 2018, 10:35 am
#478
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Email from bott and co - looks like BA will be back in the news
Yesterday, Judges at the European Court of Justice, the highest court in the European Union, ruled in passengers' favour in a case relating to whether flight delays and cancellations caused by sudden strikes by flight staff known as 'wildcat strikes', are claimable under EU Regulation 261/2004.
Since the ruling, many media publications have picked up the story, including BBC Radio 4 who would like to talk about it on their Money Box show.
The BBC is interested in speaking with passengers who have suffered a delay or cancellation caused by an airline staff strike and subsequently affected by this ruling.
If you'd be willing to speak to the BBC over the phone, please respond to this email with your most convenient contact number and preferred time. I will then pass this onto the journalist.
Yesterday, Judges at the European Court of Justice, the highest court in the European Union, ruled in passengers' favour in a case relating to whether flight delays and cancellations caused by sudden strikes by flight staff known as 'wildcat strikes', are claimable under EU Regulation 261/2004.
Since the ruling, many media publications have picked up the story, including BBC Radio 4 who would like to talk about it on their Money Box show.
The BBC is interested in speaking with passengers who have suffered a delay or cancellation caused by an airline staff strike and subsequently affected by this ruling.
If you'd be willing to speak to the BBC over the phone, please respond to this email with your most convenient contact number and preferred time. I will then pass this onto the journalist.
Apr 18, 2018, 12:22 pm
#480
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
The difference is that on the railways the cost is covered by the party causing the delay. If it is a technical problem
or strike the bill is footed by the operating company. The only difference is that in aviation there is currently no mechanism for compensating consumers where there is an infrastructure issue (e.g. hole in runway at LGW).
Of course for technical problems and the like there is no reason why BA couldn't just man up and make sure consumers were fairly compensated. That really is just an excuse. But then of course if airlines had treated people fairly before then there would have no need for legislation.