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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: serfty
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Oct 3, 18, 3:33 pm
  #1456  
 
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Hi Speedbird 70. What a coincidence! My post a few above relates to exactly the same flight and same situation (although I used an AMEX not Chase voucher). We were also put on the AA flight, and I also got the 40,000 Avios. BA called me yesterday and told me to get lost (not a quote) if I expect anything else - they refuse to entertain the 75% refund as they were Avios tickets. No recognition or compensation for the 2 voucher pax. (We were a family of 4).

Last edited by BA_Pax; Oct 3, 18 at 4:20 pm Reason: Small correction.
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Old Oct 4, 18, 6:53 am
  #1457  
 
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Hello all, I posted here earlier as I was also delayed for 24 hours in the summer of 2017 by a cancellation due to the Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew strikes. I was waiting for the results of the court case to be decided before starting a claim, but in the light of what @Ichbinb says about the CEDR ruling, what would you recommend I do? Start a claim now? Thanks!

Last edited by dominicjjordan; Oct 4, 18 at 6:54 am Reason: Wrong link
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Old Oct 4, 18, 7:00 am
  #1458  
 
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Originally Posted by dominicjjordan View Post
Hello all, I posted here earlier as I was also delayed for 24 hours in the summer of 2017 by a cancellation due to the Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew strikes. I was waiting for the results of the court case to be decided before starting a claim, but in the light of what @Ichbinb says about the CEDR ruling, what would you recommend I do? Start a claim now? Thanks!
Yes....the post above gives you a good 'steer' on how you build the claim and cases to refer to.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 11:54 pm
  #1459  
 
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Originally Posted by Trav1970 View Post
Update on this case. BA finally responded to my second message as follows:

...
However, Iíve checked the details of your journey and Iím pleased to advise youíre entitled to compensation for the delay to your flight BAxxx on [date]. The distance of your disrupted journey was over 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with EU legislation. This means youíre entitled to Ä600.00 in compensation. Iíve arranged a bank transfer for this amount and the money will be on your account shortly.
...
When a flight is delayed or cancelled we would normally only rebook you to the next available British Airways flight according to our General Conditions of Carriage. Any exceptions to this policy can only be done at the airport. We were happy to absorb the cost of rebooking you to another airline so that we could get you to your destination sooner. If we offer you a flight with another airline, this and all other options would have been discussed with you by our staff. As Iím sure you can appreciate, by agreeing and accepting to travel in a lower cabin with KLM, we canít offer you downgrade compensation. However, you would be entitled to a refund of the difference in fare between the two cabins, and this will be refunded to the original form of payment used to purchase your ticket. As your ticket was issued by Finnair, you would have to contact them for the refund.
The 600 euros delay compensation has now landed on my bank account. I have raised a question on Finnair regarding the downgrade refund, and will determine next steps based on their response.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 2:06 am
  #1460  
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Originally Posted by Trav1970 View Post
The 600 euros delay compensation has now landed on my bank account. I have raised a question on Finnair regarding the downgrade refund, and will determine next steps based on their response.
What you received is pretty much standard fare from BA when claiming downgrade compensation - they will always try the ďyou agreed to thisĒ line if a different carrier is involved - but itís not right, and you need to emphasise that this was involuntary.

Delay compensation is one article in EC261.

Downgrade reimbursement is another. There is nothing stopping you claiming both from BA, so you are entitled to a refund of 75% of the leg distance (in percentage terms of the total journey) less the usual taxes.

Where BA is technically correct is that this would be repaid through the ticketing agent.

I would expect, given previous examples, you might well have to take the legal route on this one though.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:31 pm
  #1461  
 
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Hello flyertalk friends,

I am flying BA in F on a paid ticket from SJC-LHR-TLV (and back) in November. When ticketed, the LHR-TLV and TLV-LHR segments were on a 787 in that had an F cabin. However, I noticed recently (BA didn't notify me, I only noticed when I managed my booking a couple of days ago), but they changed the plane to a 777-200 with no F cabin and rebooked me in J (Club World) for the LHR-TLV and TLV-LHR segments.

I had a couple of questions related to downgrades if I can trouble you all with.

1. Does this qualify as an involuntary downgrade if I haven't yet flown on the flight? If it does, can I request the 75% refund of the downgraded segments now? Or do I have to fly the flights first and request compensation after the fact?
2. Regarding the compensation calculation, my itinerary/receipt doesn't have a breakdown of actual fare for each segment, and I don't have the cost for the flights on the day that I've booked for both J and F. Can I ballpark what the fare cost I should expect back by using the proportion of the segment distance to the total distance? (i.e. total distance is let's say 10000 miles, LHR to TLV is 3000 miles so my segment cost is 30% of the fare, and then take 75% of the 30%?).
3. Can I request fee-free changes to my itinerary? If I can, I am guessing that this would disqualify me from the downgrade compensation as I would no longer be "involuntarily" downgraded?
4. Since I am now flying in J from LHR-TLV, is there any way to request entrance into the Concorde Room since I originally paid for F and expected to be able to use F services in LHR?

Thank you all in advance for any advice.
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Old Oct 8, 18, 4:48 am
  #1462  
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Originally Posted by burrbrown View Post
1. Does this qualify as an involuntary downgrade if I haven't yet flown on the flight? If it does, can I request the 75% refund of the downgraded segments now? Or do I have to fly the flights first and request compensation after the fact?
It looks like a downgrade to me, but you do have to wait until after travelling before claiming. Which makes sense, they may reinstate the aircraft or you could change your plans.
2. Regarding the compensation calculation, my itinerary/receipt doesn't have a breakdown of actual fare for each segment, and I don't have the cost for the flights on the day that I've booked for both J and F. Can I ballpark what the fare cost I should expect back by using the proportion of the segment distance to the total distance? (i.e. total distance is let's say 10000 miles, LHR to TLV is 3000 miles so my segment cost is 30% of the fare, and then take 75% of the 30%?).
The distances can calculated via something like gcmap, and if you go to the top of the thread you will see how to calculate the downgrade amount. In there you will see the calculation is not on sector pricing but on the total for the ticket pro rata for distance, against the 75% figure and allowing for unavoidable taxes such as Heathrow's Passenger Service Charge. If you have the total ticket cost to hand, you can use BA.com / ITA Matrix / Google Flights (etc) to find out the fees and taxes and work it out from there. You should at least do an approximate calculation since BA may use their own formula, which is often - but not always - more generous than EC261.
3. Can I request fee-free changes to my itinerary? If I can, I am guessing that this would disqualify me from the downgrade compensation as I would no longer be "involuntarily" downgraded?
Yes you can change flights, but unless the flight timings have also changed I think there would be some expectation you would be moving to another F flight. And yes at that point you don't get EC261 for downgrading after altering the booking.
4. Since I am now flying in J from LHR-TLV, is there any way to request entrance into the Concorde Room since I originally paid for F and expected to be able to use F services in LHR?
That should be possible, just call YouFirst and ask they put a note on your PNR, then at check-in in LHR the agent should give you a special card that will get you access.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 1:24 am
  #1463  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
It looks like a downgrade to me, but you do have to wait until after travelling before claiming. Which makes sense, they may reinstate the aircraft or you could change your plans.

The distances can calculated via something like gcmap, and if you go to the top of the thread you will see how to calculate the downgrade amount. In there you will see the calculation is not on sector pricing but on the total for the ticket pro rata for distance, against the 75% figure and allowing for unavoidable taxes such as Heathrow's Passenger Service Charge. If you have the total ticket cost to hand, you can use BA.com / ITA Matrix / Google Flights (etc) to find out the fees and taxes and work it out from there. You should at least do an approximate calculation since BA may use their own formula, which is often - but not always - more generous than EC261.

Yes you can change flights, but unless the flight timings have also changed I think there would be some expectation you would be moving to another F flight. And yes at that point you don't get EC261 for downgrading after altering the booking.

That should be possible, just call YouFirst and ask they put a note on your PNR, then at check-in in LHR the agent should give you a special card that will get you access.
Thanks for the reply corporate-wage-slave. I'll update the thread later with my experience if I end up having to claim downgrade compensation. Interestingly, I think my flight should also be covered by Israel's 2012 Aviation Services Law, but since that law provides for 60% compensation vs the 75% under EC261, I guess it doesn't help in my case. Unless of course I could make a claim both statues. #firstworldproblems
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Old Oct 9, 18, 1:34 am
  #1464  
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You canít really double dip.

But what I would check is how the Israeli 60% is calculated.

Under EU 261 downgrade reimbursement calculation the government taxes and airport fees are excluded from the calculation of the sector cost for example.

if the Israeli scheme includes those elements you might actually get more back even though the headline rate under is EU261 is higher.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 2:43 am
  #1465  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Unless you were offered a First flight then no, it does not rule out EC261. It's best in this situation to ask specifically what First alternatives were available and to note down the reply. It looks like they were trying to prevent you from being 3 hours late into LHR, so there is a double jeopardy there. But if BA placed you in business and offered you no First then that's a downgrade under the Regulation.
I doubt that BA has to offer a F seat to avoid the downgrade compensation. If the OP was suggested a AA flight and accepted this (either orally or by accepting it online) then the OP has accepted to travel in a lower service class and there is no downgrade issue. BA is not rebooking the pax to other flights let alone in a lower service class unless the pax consents. Alternatively, the OP could have insisted on being rebooked to a flight with F seats (but this would most likely have lead to a significant delayed arrival into LHR).

No doubt that the Avois booking and the 2-4-1 voucher do not speaking in favour of the OP when BA dealt with the claim for comp. It is unbelievable that BA hasn't put a end to those 2-4-1 vouchers long time ago.

Last edited by SK AAR; Oct 9, 18 at 2:55 am
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Old Oct 9, 18, 3:20 am
  #1466  
 
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I got this what seems to be a standard response, how do they prove the weather situation? The explanation given onboard was an aircraft not being able to leave prague and the crew needing to be changed over from stand by staff which took time.


Dear Mr Xxxxx

Thanks for contacting us about your EU compensation claim.

Your claim’s been refused because BA0453 on 06th October 2018 was delayed because of adverse weather conditions which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

Your flight was delayed due to adverse weather conditions at London Heathrow, which affected the outbound journey of the aircraft operating your flight from Ibiza to Heathrow. We always want to maintain a stable operation, as we know how much delaying a flight affects our customers. Unfortunately this was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule. I understand how disappointing this may be, especially when you had an event planned for the evening which this delay caused you to miss.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.

Thanks for following this up with us. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 3:42 am
  #1467  
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Originally Posted by matt_s_london View Post
I got this what seems to be a standard response, how do they prove the weather situation? The explanation given onboard was an aircraft not being able to leave prague and the crew needing to be changed over from stand by staff which took time.
It looks like your service was about 3hr 40 minutes late back into LHR. I can't see the dispatch information now, that's only available for a few days, and probably wouldn't help much. The way this works legally is that if this got to court, it's up to BA to prove that extraordinary circumstances applied and whether it was probably handled, at which point they have to provide the evidence. It's not necessarily much different from what you have been told: if there was a weather restriction there may have been a risk of a crew going out of hours, and therefore the need to locate a standby crew. Getting such a crew usually doesn't take very long however. I suspect your best bet now is to ask for this to go to CEDR - at which point the relevant evidence would be provided by BA.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 12:32 pm
  #1468  
 
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
You canít really double dip.

But what I would check is how the Israeli 60% is calculated.

Under EU 261 downgrade reimbursement calculation the government taxes and airport fees are excluded from the calculation of the sector cost for example.

if the Israeli scheme includes those elements you might actually get more back even though the headline rate under is EU261 is higher.
I skimmed through the text of the law from this link: http://www.tourism-law.co.il/pdf/Avi...icesLawENG.pdf. The "second schedule" on page 22 spells out the compensation for downgrades. Section 3. (a) (2) does mention that "reimbursement of consideration in the amount paid for the Flight Ticket, including any payment paid for the Flight Ticket, including fees, levies, taxes, and other obligatory payments,...". Thanks for pointing this out, UKtravelbear. I'll have to look into this more closely.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 5:54 am
  #1469  
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Originally Posted by icbinb View Post
I just wanted to report that CEDR have ruled in my favour regarding compensation for a cancelled flight due to the mixed fleet cabin crew strikes last summer. I started the CEDR process not long after the KrŁsemann and Others v TUIfly GmbH ruling regarding strike action. The CEDR adjudicator gave that case a lot of weight in his decision. Hopefully this information will help others who were similarly fobbed off by BA.
Thanks for this, great result for you. More annoying for me given that CEDR rejected my claim. I ended up turning to bott and co who a couple of weeks ago issued court papers against BA. Hopefully I will finally receive the compensation due from BA, less the B&C fee.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 6:34 am
  #1470  
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Originally Posted by Tim_T View Post


Thanks for this, great result for you. More annoying for me given that CEDR rejected my claim. I ended up turning to bott and co who a couple of weeks ago issued court papers against BA. Hopefully I will finally receive the compensation due from BA, less the B&C fee.
Would you mind giving an indication as to Bott & Co's fees, or is it one of those companies that takes a flat percentage?
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