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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Sep 27, 18, 1:06 pm
  #1426  
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Originally Posted by sgd View Post
Really just posting as an update on my case for the group to see - but any thoughts/ comments I'd be interested to hear. I guess my only hesitation about asking BA to refer me to CEDR is I'm not sure it's a good idea to forewarn them - since I'm so close to 8 weeks maybe I should just wait it out?
Apologies if this comes across as a repetition but CR won't change their minds. So you may as well get CEDR going sooner rather than later, since the paralegals work off other criteria. So just ask them to confirm that this is their final position and therefore they are OK with a referral to CEDR. It's a fairly clinical process, I wouldn't labour the issue.
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Old Sep 27, 18, 2:54 pm
  #1427  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Apologies if this comes across as a repetition but CR won't change their minds. So you may as well get CEDR going sooner rather than later, since the paralegals work off other criteria. So just ask them to confirm that this is their final position and therefore they are OK with a referral to CEDR. It's a fairly clinical process, I wouldn't labour the issue.
Got it. Thank you again for your help/ guidance. Will report back.
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Old Sep 27, 18, 9:53 pm
  #1428  
 
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Originally Posted by sgd View Post
My LHR-SJC flight cancellation originally reported on post 1074 of this thread is going a very similar path to the one reported by tal27 above. Several back and forth communications with BA - BA denied the claim and I eventually managed to tease out of them that the cancellation was due to the 787 engine issue, claiming that it's a safety issue, beyond their control etc.

Fully agree with CWS that I doubt I'll get anywhere with BA and need to go the CEDR path. However, CEDR requires 8 weeks since my original report to BA or a final response from BA referring me to CEDR. I'm at just over 6 weeks. I'm thinking I will give it one more try with BA and ask that they either approve my claim (doubtful) or refer me to CEDR.

Really just posting as an update on my case for the group to see - but any thoughts/ comments I'd be interested to hear. I guess my only hesitation about asking BA to refer me to CEDR is I'm not sure it's a good idea to forewarn them - since I'm so close to 8 weeks maybe I should just wait it out?
The safety issue is a variation of what BA used in my claim. It wasn't successful as the CEDR arbitrator found that it was a known issue since at least 2017 and that BA hadn't taken reasonable measures to avoid the inconvenience of flight cancellations. I believe that I posted my CEDR decision here previously, but if not, PM me with an email address and I'll send it to you, together with the briefs filed in the matter. It would be helpful to track which aircraft was originally assigned to your flight, as in my case, I showed that the aircraft was reassigned and operated the same day just on a different flight.That further undercuts their safety argument. Also, I detailed the enitre BA fleet that was available for my length flight. Keep in mind that BA has the burden of proof that they took reasonable measures, not just poor fleet management issues, and if they don't adequately do that you win.

On the 8 week issue, I filed early and CEDR sent me a notice to explain why. By the deadline for my explanation, the 8 weeks had passed and they just ignored that issue and proceeded as usual.
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Old Sep 28, 18, 1:06 am
  #1429  
 
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Compensation for cancelled flight.

When claiming EU compensation for a cancelled BA flight, do you claim for all other expenses on the same claim form, or are there two seperate forms you should use ? Thanks.
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Old Sep 28, 18, 11:27 pm
  #1430  
 
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Originally Posted by Trav1970 View Post
Thank you for the advice.

I have written back to BA. I will keep you posted on the developments.
A couple of weeks have passed. BA hasnít bothered responding. I will wait a bit more before taking the next step.
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Old Sep 30, 18, 2:49 am
  #1431  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot37 View Post
Any idea why the turn around was held up before the PMI departure? If it was French ATC restrictions (I think they were striking again over the weekend) then your argument is invalid before you start.

Pilot37
Originally Posted by ajeleonard View Post
That logic is unlikely to be accepted grounds for an EU261 claim. If the runway closure had not taken place then the flight would (most likely) have operated with a delay of less than 3 hours
Just a quick update on the above which started at Post #767 .

I decided to take this to CEDR and have just been advised that my case has been upheld. This was mainly due to BA failing to prove that our delay was due to unusual circumstances. BA had a delayed turnround meaning our plane was caught by the subsequent emergency landing and failed to give the reasons for the delayed turnround leading to the reactionary delay to our flight.
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Old Sep 30, 18, 3:03 am
  #1432  
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Originally Posted by steve170461 View Post
Just a quick update on the above which started at Post #767 .

I decided to take this to CEDR and have just been advised that my case has been upheld. This was mainly due to BA failing to prove that our delay was due to unusual circumstances. BA had a delayed turnround meaning our plane was caught by the subsequent emergency landing and failed to give the reasons for the delayed turnround leading to the reactionary delay to our flight.
Thanks for reverting back, since we are starting to see a pattern emerging from CEDR here - namely that they take on board extraordinary circumstances but then apply the further additional tests that CJEU and other appellate courts have reinforced in recent (and not so recent) rulings. This may help others in their claims. However the caveat is that common to all 3 cases upthread is the suggestion that BA didn't present sufficient evidence to support their arguments, which may be something they will focus on in the future. Admittedly proving something extraordinary happened is much easier than the additional tests (such as inherent, could not be avoided, all reasonable measures).
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Old Sep 30, 18, 3:13 am
  #1433  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Thanks for reverting back, since we are starting to see a pattern emerging from CEDR here - namely that they take on board extraordinary circumstances but then apply the further additional tests that CJEU and other appellate courts have reinforced in recent (and not so recent) rulings. This may help others in their claims. However the caveat is that common to all 3 cases upthread is the suggestion that BA didn't present sufficient evidence to support their arguments, which may be something they will focus on in the future. Admittedly proving something extraordinary happened is much easier than the additional tests (such as inherent, could not be avoided, all reasonable measures).
I did ask BA for the reasons for the turnround delay but they couldn't/wouldn't reveal them,so giving me the impression that there was more to it. They did supply copious notes on the day's activity for the aircraft however. One thing that CEDR did jump on-as did I, was the fact that BA used the phrase "just after" referring to the runway closure when that was actually referring to a time interval of over 2 hours.
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Old Sep 30, 18, 5:20 pm
  #1434  
 
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To update on our claim (see post 1272). BA is not having it. Somebody from the legal insurance team put in the claim on our behalf. Interestingly enough BA CR responded to me... huh if my ďlawyerĒ contacts you thatís who you deal with, not me... but ok. I turned around and dumped the email straight in our legal guyís lap. BA is now saying that they have no way of knowing if the SN flight was late so they want confirmation from the other airline about the actual time of arrival.

Wonder what they will come up with once it is confirmed.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:46 am
  #1435  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
....we are starting to see a pattern emerging from CEDR here - namely that they take on board extraordinary circumstances but then apply the further additional tests that CJEU and other appellate courts have reinforced in recent (and not so recent) rulings....
It seems CEDR are just being reasonable, objective, intelligent.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:48 am
  #1436  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Thanks for reverting back, since we are starting to see a pattern emerging from CEDR here - namely that they take on board extraordinary circumstances but then apply the further additional tests that CJEU and other appellate courts have reinforced in recent (and not so recent) rulings. This may help others in their claims. However the caveat is that common to all 3 cases upthread is the suggestion that BA didn't present sufficient evidence to support their arguments, which may be something they will focus on in the future. Admittedly proving something extraordinary happened is much easier than the additional tests (such as inherent, could not be avoided, all reasonable measures).
Would it help others if I put the full 4 page judgement on here-I see it was done a while ago in another case. No issue either way-apart from working out how to do it!!

Last edited by steve170461; Oct 1, 18 at 2:49 am Reason: Grammar
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:50 am
  #1437  
 
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Originally Posted by steve170461 View Post
Would it help others if I put the full 4 page judgement on here-I see it was done a while ago in another case. No issue either way-apart from working out how to do it!!
Yes, ideally as an attachment. Always helps others to challenge in similar situations.
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Old Oct 2, 18, 4:22 am
  #1438  
 
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Originally Posted by BA_Pax View Post
I would be grateful for any informed views on what I should push for in the following scenario.

4 PAX on F UK-USA Avios (using 2 x 2-4-1 and 320k Avios).
Outbound no problem (great experience and crew actually).
Return flight cancelled with 8 hours notice due to weather - aircraft diverted to another USA city.
Auto-rebooked all 4 seats in J with AA (so 1 class downgrade and change of carrier) as no F cabin operated.

Does the fact it was weather affect any downgrade Avios refund or comp? Will I be looking at proportionate refund for only 2 of the tickets as 2 were 2-4-1? Thanks. I’ll be happy to update you on progress.
Just thought I would update on the above from August. After much messing around - and getting calls from the Exec Club not knowing what I want, I have just had a call from someone (number withheld - lucky I answered it). This polite lady informed me she works in the EU261 part of the Executive Club, and there is absolutely no way I am getting anything out of them except the 40,000 Avios being the difference in miles needed between Club and First (20,000 per passenger - again ignoring the two poor passengers who happened to be on the AMEX Voucher). Apparently this is all I'm getting - they are already in the account - and as it was weather related, and miles paid for, that's it. No point in appealing. Matter closed.

I guess MCOL is it then? It really seems to cheapen the AMEX voucher which we work so hard for.

Thanks.
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Old Oct 2, 18, 4:29 am
  #1439  
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Originally Posted by BA_Pax View Post
I guess MCOL is it then? It really seems to cheapen the AMEX voucher which we work so hard for.
Yes, I fear so. You could ask Amex to replace the vouchers, and then add them to BA in your MCOL application when they decline, but I guess that is to add to the nuisance value. You will need to frame MCOL quite carefully.
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Old Oct 2, 18, 12:20 pm
  #1440  
 
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Originally Posted by Trav1970 View Post

A couple of weeks have passed. BA hasnít bothered responding. I will wait a bit more before taking the next step.
Update on this case. BA finally responded to my second message as follows:

Dear Trav1970,

Thanks for contacting us again about your claim for compensation. Iím sorry youíre unhappy with our previous response. Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

Iíve reviewed your claim. We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and weíll always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. However, Iíve checked the details of your journey and Iím pleased to advise youíre entitled to compensation for the delay to your flight BAxxx on [date]. The distance of your disrupted journey was over 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with EU legislation. This means youíre entitled to Ä600.00 in compensation. Iíve arranged a bank transfer for this amount and the money will be on your account shortly.

When a flight is delayed or cancelled we would normally only rebook you to the next available British Airways flight according to our General Conditions of Carriage. Any exceptions to this policy can only be done at the airport. We were happy to absorb the cost of rebooking you to another airline so that we could get you to your destination sooner. If we offer you a flight with another airline, this and all other options would have been discussed with you by our staff. As Iím sure you can appreciate, by agreeing and accepting to travel in a lower cabin with KLM, we canít offer you downgrade compensation. However, you would be entitled to a refund of the difference in fare between the two cabins, and this will be refunded to the original form of payment used to purchase your ticket. As your ticket was issued by Finnair, you would have to contact them for the refund.

Thanks again for getting in touch. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and we look forward to welcoming you on board again soon.


So it seems that we are now getting somewhere, at least related to the delay compensation. BA's view of me "agreeing" to travel in a lower cabin is questionable as I never "agreed" to it, and in fact I made a reclamation regarding this as soon as I was handed the paperwork, then called both BA and Finnair and again tried calling BA the following morning before the flight. I guess I may need to see what would come out of the fare difference. I fear the result will be the actual cost of the journey minus the most expensive Y cabin fare.
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