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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: serfty
Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Sep 21, 18, 4:52 pm
  #1381  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Gold, HH Gold, Amex Plat Charge (UK), SPG Gold, Hertz Gold, Hyatt Dia, PP,
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by mikeecix View Post
I'd doubt a Judge would deem "jetstream winds" and being "held when arriving at JFK" extraordinary circumstances bearing in mind the wind blows from West to East across the Atlantic every day and there's been arrival delays into JFK ever since the Wright Brothers got airborne. This is why airlines pad-out their block times from dep to dest to cover these sort of eventualities (and more) so despite departing 1 hour late, you usually miraculously arrive on-time.

A short response to them stating the above and reminding them that they need to prove both events were exceptional should result in it going into the "no win" pile. If no joy, MCOL is your friend :-)
Thanks - agreed. Funny thing is that I’m currently sat on tarmac at JFK. Pilot just said - ‘we’ve got about a 30min taxi this evening which is quite normal for JFK ��’. Think I’ll fold my Gold Card into a little plastic aeroplane and send it with my claim.


Last edited by Prospero; Sep 21, 18 at 11:17 pm Reason: Remove staff member’s name
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Old Sep 22, 18, 3:40 am
  #1382  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Gold, HH Gold, Amex Plat Charge (UK), SPG Gold, Hertz Gold, Hyatt Dia, PP,
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
As stated before.....the lies from BA are getting ever more comical.

Someone must be on a bonus for every £ they save.

Just crack on with MCOL and copy in the Daily Mail.
Iím imagining a big red button attached to the random excuse generator...
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Old Sep 23, 18, 4:27 am
  #1383  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 187
Is anyone able to provide a reason for the cancellation of BA8713 (EDI - LCY) today please? I thought it might have been a casualty of the London weather today but I don't see any other cancellations into LCY.

Cheers,
~S
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Old Sep 23, 18, 4:48 am
  #1384  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Originally Posted by Schiehallion View Post
Is anyone able to provide a reason for the cancellation of BA8713 (EDI - LCY) today please?
Somewhat unusual, but DAMY - Damaged and Yes to EC261 (assuming the replacement flight timings are beyond the timeframes mentioned upthread). Maybe something like cargo door not shutting properly.
DOBA8713/23SEP
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA8713 0 SU 23SEP18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

EDI ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 1300
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0017
DAMY
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1428 LCY
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA8713 0 SU 23SEP18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
EDI 1300 SU JCDRI/M YB/S E70 1:30
HKMLVNOQSG/S
LCY 1430 SU 1:30
COMMENTS-
1.EDI LCY - AIRCRAFT OWNER BA CITYFLYER
2.EDI LCY - OPERATED BY BA CITYFLYER
3.EDI LCY - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
4.EDI LCY - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.EDI LCY - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
6.EDI LCY - CO2/PAX* 88.21 KG ECO, 88.21 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
E70 C 16 M 60
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Sep 23, 18, 4:52 am
  #1385  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Somewhat unusual, but DAMY - Damaged and Yes to EC261 (assuming the replacement flight timings are beyond the timeframes mentioned upthread). Maybe something like cargo door not shutting properly.
DOBA8713/23SEP
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA8713 0 SU 23SEP18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

EDI ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 1300
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0017
DAMY
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1428 LCY
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA8713 0 SU 23SEP18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
EDI 1300 SU JCDRI/M YB/S E70 1:30
HKMLVNOQSG/S
LCY 1430 SU 1:30
COMMENTS-
1.EDI LCY - AIRCRAFT OWNER BA CITYFLYER
2.EDI LCY - OPERATED BY BA CITYFLYER
3.EDI LCY - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
4.EDI LCY - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.EDI LCY - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
6.EDI LCY - CO2/PAX* 88.21 KG ECO, 88.21 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
E70 C 16 M 60
Much obliged, many thanks.
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Old Sep 23, 18, 5:01 am
  #1386  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: AA, BA, SAA, Hertz
Posts: 5
Resolution!

Originally Posted by essjss View Post
I finally got my deadlock response from BA today. And of course now the CEDR online application is down. I'll try it again tomorrow and will then do the print/send if necessary. I'm hopeful that BA finally admit fault on this but I guess that will be up to the judgement of the CEDR when the time comes.
I finally got an offer from BA for the full 261 payment after my 24 hour delay. The CEDR proceedings were finally enough to get them to accept their responsibility.

Thanks for the tips from this thread and don't give up on your options when you have a real claim to make.
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Old Sep 23, 18, 11:39 am
  #1387  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Betwixt SEA and LHR
Programs: BAEC GGL/CCR, AS Gold MVP, IC RA, IHG Spire Elite, HH Diamond, Dennis The Menace Fan Club
Posts: 1,334
Originally Posted by opalfruit View Post
I'm being given the run-around by BA on what, to me, seems like a slam-dunk EC261 claim.

So, I duly submitted an EC261 claim with BA, given that their late running BA827 meant that the aircraft arrived into LHR too late for my family to make their onward connection to SEA. Seems like a cut and dried case to me, but BA aren't having it. They're saying that they are not responsible for the delay to the BA827, but are not being specific as to who might be, and I am awaiting their call back with more detailed information. I wonder, could one of you kind folks, who have access to the data, please tell me exactly what the delay duration was to the BA827 on the 11th August, and why it occurred?
An update on this, just received a message from BA after nearly a month of silence from them stating:

Dear opalfruit

Thanks for your email. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you.

Your claimís been refused because BA0827 on 11 August was delayed because of airspace restrictions being in place following adverse weather conditions the previous day. This prevented the aircraft from operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, Iím afraid weíre not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. Weíre very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
This is hogwash, right? Knock-on delays carried over from the day before are not exceptional circumstances according to EC261, particularly when the rotation is being operated from an airline's home base. BA could have chosen to run these services on-time with spare airframes, but they chose not to. There is nothing extenuating here as far as I can see.

Does anyone know the address or email address I send a Letter Before Action to?
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Old Sep 23, 18, 11:48 am
  #1388  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Originally Posted by opalfruit View Post
This is hogwash, right? Knock-on delays carried over from the day before are not exceptional circumstances according to EC261, particularly when the rotation is being operated from an airline's home base. BA could have chosen to run these services on-time with spare airframes, but they chose not to. There is nothing extenuating here as far as I can see.

Does anyone know the address or email address I send a Letter Before Action to?
If the delay was the previous day and the aircraft had returned to London before Dublin then yes that's not extraordinary circumstances. Even if it was, BA isn't exempt from mitigating the impact of extraordinary circumstances, so it's important to go on both lines of approach there (and any other relevant lines of approach). The address is in post 1.
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Old Sep 23, 18, 1:31 pm
  #1389  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,482
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
..BA isn't exempt from mitigating the impact of extraordinary circumstances....
What happens in diversion situations due to continuos bad weather ? Say a morning flight path is LHR-GIB-LHR and itís a little windy at GIbralter and the flight is diverted to Malaga, should the aircraft generally wait for passengers to be transferred by road to Malaga or is it acceptable to return empty to LHR in such a situation?
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Old Sep 23, 18, 1:53 pm
  #1390  
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Originally Posted by richardwft View Post
What happens in diversion situations due to continuos bad weather ? Say a morning flight path is LHR-GIB-LHR and itís a little windy at GIbralter and the flight is diverted to Malaga, should the aircraft generally wait for passengers to be transferred by road to Malaga or is it acceptable to return empty to LHR in such a situation?
Bad example, EC261 does not cover Gibraltar. But hypothetically, and maybe using SPU from DBV as a similar example, then if BA didn't wait or provide alternative travel then it could be on the hook for claims. This is an emerging area and I can't be totally sure about CEDR or MCOL would view this, but there is now quite a body of law which deals with this area. So for example when an bird strike caused a delay but then the airline required a particular engineer review the damage, leading to an extended delay, CJEU took the view that second stage was under the airline's control. Then there is a further debate to be had on the word "inherent" but that's for another post.
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Old Sep 23, 18, 3:13 pm
  #1391  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,482
Apologies for the bad example. Thanks to c-w-s for a very interesting response.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 7:43 am
  #1392  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
Mixed Fleet strike cancellation

Update: BA have now accepted my counter-offer with updated FX rate and paid out for all four passengers in the booking.
Originally Posted by Temych View Post
Update:
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:39 am
  #1393  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2
Apologies for an off-topic contribution but figured the most knowledgeable people are in this thread. I'm currently having an ongoing fight with SWISS about an overnight delay in July of this year. Routing BEG-ZRH-LCY (as no oneworld option to BEG!)- there was a small weather delay in BEG but after a scramble through the bowels of the E gates at Zurich, we were at the gate in advance of the scheduled boarding time to be informed that the flight was cancelled, due to a "technical issue with the aircraft".

We had a 3 hour queue to get a hotel voucher and refreshments, and I was lucky enough to get rebooked on a direct BA flight to LHR (the next day) over the phone whilst stood in the queue- missing out on 1 & 2 stop routings the majority of the people around us got when they hit the front of the queue. So whilst it was rubbish at the time, I'm pretty satisfied that SWISS met the accommodation part of EC261.

However, on return to the UK, I thought I had some nailed on EC261 delay compensations (arrived 2pm on Monday 16th July at LHR rather than 6pm on Sunday 15th July at LCY) but SWISS are repeatedly denying compensation, stating that the aircraft required a 'hard landing check' on arrival at ZRH, and this counts as extraordinary circumstances.

Your file has been reviewed and as advised previously, your flight was cancelled due to a hard landing check. An aircraft is a complex, mechanical and electronic system, whose flawless performance is of utmost priority for SWISS. Nevertheless, unforeseeable and unavoidable defects sometimes occur.

As such circumstances are considered extraordinary; we regret to inform you that you are not eligible for financial compensation.

Although I well understand your irritation in view of your experience, I hope you understand that I cannot grant a favorable to your request for the reasons explained.
I argue that given other flights of the same types of aircraft (CS100) departed in a similar time frame, this was a commercial decision to not run the LCY flight that evening (as opposed to cancelling another flight), and is thus compensation-eligible.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Or what's the best route to progress, MCOL?
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Old Sep 24, 18, 11:16 pm
  #1394  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Berlin
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 836
BA8490 (TXL-LCY) cancelled 25/09 - EC261?

My flight from Berlin to London City this morning, scheduled to depart at 07.05, was cancelled at short notice. (Around 05.45, and I still haven't officially been notified of the cancellation by either email or SMS). The next flight to City is at 11.40.

I declined an offer to rebook me onto the Heathrow flight at 07.10, due to the hassle of getting through LHR and from there to work, and returned home. I'm guessing that this means I have also given up my entitlement to EC261 compensation?

If not, could someone check the reason for the cancellation? No-one at the airport seemed to know.
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Old Sep 25, 18, 12:08 am
  #1395  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: BAEC, A3 M&B
Posts: 268
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA8490 0 TU 25SEP18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

FLIGHT CANCELLED 2305
CCRN
Maybe the learned members can make sense of this. Very disappointing given this appears to be a nightstop service and the reason may well have been obvious last night.

Good luck with the next one.
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