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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 7:02 am
  #1366  
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There is no cap on expenses listed in EU261.

BA cannot just impose a cap and say 'tough' get back to them telling them that and if they don't pay up then it's off to MCOL with them.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 7:21 am
  #1367  
 
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Re the BA12 saga. Arrived about 5 hrs late. Filed a claim for Euro 600 under the advice given by CWS via the contact us page through Manage my Account. Will report back if anything results. Very stressful for me as I was initially rebooked from the early Prg flight to the second of the day. Then as things developed I missed this, but wasnt sure what arrangements had been made until arriving at Lhr. Was rebooked on the 3rd flight of the day on BAs initiative and sweated on my bag making the connection - which it did otherwise I would be sitting here working in Malta (early morning next day departure from Prg) with what I was wearing leaving Singapore. I have never been so happy to see a bag!
Just to add re a previous comment,BA made no announcement re the posibility of compensation - in fact completely the opposite. The silence on the subject to a regular traveller (1k) was disappointing to say the least. The folder with BP for onwards connection booking did contain a leaflet pertaining to ones rights and EU compo though.
OF

Last edited by OldFruity; Sep 19, 18 at 7:26 am
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Old Sep 19, 18, 7:25 am
  #1368  
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Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer View Post
All 4 squeezed themselves into one taxi (to save cost to BA), arriving at 1am, and costing about Eur100.
Took one taxi back to AMS the next day (again, to save cost to BA), costing about Eur90

BA have paid only 100 (50 per taxi journey), citing a 50 cap, and advised the passenger to claim the balance from their Travel Insurance.
The taxi from AMS to The Hague seems unavoidable given it was presumably around midnight, and so that should have been paid in full, in my view. The cap is just BA's internal rules and won't stand up in court or even CEDR in my view. There is nothing in the regulation that provides a cap here, BA were free to provide alternative transportation (such as a coach) if they were that bothered.

For the return, that depends on the time of day. There is a fast train service from The Hague to AMS, much faster than a taxi would be, from 05:30 hrs onwards. Journey time is 25 to 30 minutes. So BA are - I think - able to rely on you using the train to return to Schiphol, and the fare is 10€ per person. If BA's representative there (it's actually an outsourced ground agency) said the taxi fare would be paid then that's something you can put in the claim and would probably be a persuasive (but not conclusive) argument.

That said - a pushback on taxi fares is the one area where BA do take a second look at it and change their minds. Many other areas if they say "no" once they won't change their minds, taxis are an exception, at least as seen in previous posts here. (This is an example of where coming back with outcomes is helpful to future FTers).

If your contacts made a complaint immediately then they can now directly refer the case to CEDR, which if that is the case is what I would advise. BA may then fold soon thereafter.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 7:36 am
  #1369  
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EC 261/2004 simply provides for a duty of care. If that includes a hotel, then it includes getting to and from the hotel. "Reasonableness" is always the key. At that time of night, a taxi is reasonable and thus the standard taxi fare is reasonable. The return is another question and the question is whether the taxi fare exceeds 4 train tickets by some measurable amount.

I would send a clear and concise note to BA which is devoid of anything other than the facts, thus allowing it to be readily attached to either an MCOL or CEDR complaint. Separate out the two rides, explain why each one is reasonable and then proceed.

Although not necessarily relevant to outcome, what was the fare and what is it that BA considers its cap?
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Old Sep 19, 18, 7:55 am
  #1370  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
For the return, that depends on the time of day. There is a fast train service from The Hague to AMS, much faster than a taxi would be, from 05:30 hrs onwards. Journey time is 25 to 30 minutes. So BA are - I think - able to rely on you using the train to return to Schiphol, and the fare is 10 per person
I should add that the hotel was the Marriott, which is a 15 minute taxi ride away from the 10 fast-train-to-Schiphol station.

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Although not necessarily relevant to outcome, what was the fare and what is it that BA considers its cap?
As posted.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 9:09 am
  #1371  
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Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer View Post
I should add that the hotel was the Marriott, which is a 15 minute taxi ride away from the 10 fast-train-to-Schiphol station.
That sounds like the one near Scheveningen. Rotterdam Airport (for LCY) is nearer and easier than AMS. It's a nice hotel, I know it well, but I presume its charms were not easily spotted given the circumstances.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 10:38 am
  #1372  
 
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Originally Posted by SoiDog View Post
Thanks CWS.

Looking at the flight times I think we were within MCT for T5 - the flight from MAN (IB7685) was delayed for about an hour which should've meant we had at least a 50 min connection time at T5. We had to wait in a queue at the BA transfer desk for quite a while to be told we couldn't fly until the morning. I think this might be about whether there was a problem with the IB flight to MAD (we were given no information). I've asked on the IB forum about whether the flight was cancelled or not.

If anyone has any info on here it was IB3167 on Friday 14th Sep.

Thanks again.
IB3166 arrived at LHR @ 16.06 and IB3167 departed at 18.10 (all times are UTC) It was an A340 EC-JCZ.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 11:34 am
  #1373  
 
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I've tried searching this thread but it's so long that finding anything is really hard.

I was booked on BA2763 this evening from Amsterdam to Gatwick which was cancelled just after 1300 today. BA offered me a flight from Amsterdam to LCY tomorrow which really doesn't work for me so I've arranged to go via Brussels and Eurostar.

What is the latest on whether the bad weather over Scotland is an excuse to deny EU261 compensation elsewhere? All I could find was a reference to a Daily Telegraph article about a court case in 2013.

Thanks
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Old Sep 19, 18, 11:43 am
  #1374  
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Originally Posted by traveller42 View Post
What is the latest on whether the bad weather over Scotland is an excuse to deny EU261 compensation elsewhere? All I could find was a reference to a Daily Telegraph article about a court case in 2013.
Knock-on delays via a hub such as LGW won't allow the airline to use Extraordinary Circumstances. However there are currently weather and related ATC delays are on the EuroControl website at at 16:51 GMT:
EGKK/LC/LL (London Gatwick/City/Heathrow)
Arrivals regulated due to weather (strong winds).
Moderate delays.
So I wouldn't get too hopeful of Article 7 compensation. You should get a refund on the unused part of your ticket.
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Old Sep 19, 18, 1:39 pm
  #1375  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Knock-on delays via a hub such as LGW won't allow the airline to use Extraordinary Circumstances. However there are currently weather and related ATC delays are on the EuroControl website at at 16:51 GMT:
EGKK/LC/LL (London Gatwick/City/Heathrow)
Arrivals regulated due to weather (strong winds).
Moderate delays.
So I wouldn't get too hopeful of Article 7 compensation. You should get a refund on the unused part of your ticket.
Thanks for that. Looking at the media coverage of the storm, I was expecting BA to have loads of cancellations from LGW this afternoon but it turns out BA2762 and return to AMS is in fact one of only *two* cancellations between 1200 and 2200 (the other being BA2960). Now I have to work out how to archive that evidence in case I need it.

Last edited by traveller42; Sep 19, 18 at 1:46 pm
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Old Sep 20, 18, 6:03 am
  #1376  
 
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Originally Posted by Jordan D View Post
So, I believe this should be a fairly open and shut case for compensation - although unsure if it is at the EC261 level of EUR400 or EUR600:
- BA199 (LHR-BOM) last Friday (07 Sep) was boarded, prepared for departure when an issue was found with the air conditioning
- The Captain requested parts from stores, however the wrong part was delivered, and when eventually the right part was found, it would fit/work
- Departure time drifted from 2125, with updates eventually leading to 2350
- At 2359 one of the pilots announced that departure would now be delayed to 1600hrs on Saturday (it departed 1650hrs)
- BA began to discharge its duty of care duties by serving the meal at this point, whilst accommodation was readied (it was duly provided)
- The delayed BA199 arrived BOM over 20hrs behind schedule
- My father requested to see if there was anything that could be done to get him there more quickly due to it being a time sensitive trip: the BA139 on Saturday morning (like all this week) is cancelled due to the 787 issues
- BA reticketed him (and protected his return) on the Saturday morning Jet Airways LHR-BOM flight, which arrived 12hrs+ on his original flight arrival time

I assume this falls under the delay regulation (EUR400) rather than cancellation (EUR600) but seek advice accordingly.

Must be said that BA did comply with all their relevant duties regarding food, accommodation (up until my father left for his alternate flight).
Fair play to BA - claim accepted and processed within a week of being submitted. Pay out at EUR600 level.
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Old Sep 21, 18, 2:44 pm
  #1377  
 
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BA115 16th Sept

Flew BA115 LHR-JFK last Sunday. Maintenance issue with the cargo loading rollers. We were kept on the plane throughout and ultimately touched down 3h 4mins after scheduled arrival time. Arrived at the gate 3h 12mins late. Fired in a claim for the 300EUR and received the following. Do they employ people to make this crap up? Jet stream??? Being held at JFK??? Never had a taxi this short at JFK. Who are they proposing I claim - God? Maybe it's his fault there was a jet stream... I've fired back a suitably robust response. Up to them whether they pay up or i need to go down the MCOL route again. At least they've admitted liability in the email for the maintenance issue that caused the delay. Should be an easy court process.

Anyone seen anything as silly as this before?

---------

Thank you for allowing us to investigate the reasons for BA0115 flight delay.



I’ve checked the details of your flight and can confirm your flight was delayed because of British Airways for 178 minutes.

However the additional 14 minute delay was due to jet stream winds over the Atlantic and being held when arriving in JFK.



Since British Airways was only reasonable for 178 minutes of the delay and not 180 or over we are not liable to pay EU Compensation.



Thanks again for contacting us. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we can welcome you on board again soon.







Best regards


British Airways Customer Relations

Last edited by Prospero; Sep 21, 18 at 11:16 pm Reason: Remove staff member’s name
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:20 pm
  #1378  
 
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Wow they are sinking to an all time low with that one!
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:59 pm
  #1379  
 
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I'd doubt a Judge would deem "jetstream winds" and being "held when arriving at JFK" extraordinary circumstances bearing in mind the wind blows from West to East across the Atlantic every day and there's been arrival delays into JFK ever since the Wright Brothers got airborne. This is why airlines pad-out their block times from dep to dest to cover these sort of eventualities (and more) so despite departing 1 hour late, you usually miraculously arrive on-time.

A short response to them stating the above and reminding them that they need to prove both events were exceptional should result in it going into the "no win" pile. If no joy, MCOL is your friend :-)
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Old Sep 21, 18, 4:36 pm
  #1380  
 
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As stated before.....the lies from BA are getting ever more comical.

Someone must be on a bonus for every they save.

Just crack on with MCOL and copy in the Daily Mail.
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