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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 7:27 am
  #121  
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Originally Posted by dpark74 View Post
BA are continuing to refuse my claim. Just a quick question about accepting cash cards at the airport with less on them than you are actually entitled to under EU261. Is it possible that by signing for such a card, you sign away your right to full EU261 compensation? I think I still have the piece of paper that came with it somewhere at home so will read the small print, but I just wondered if this has been known to happen with BA.
No, it's just not possible to sign away your EC261 rights, in that specific regard you are always OK to sign acceptance notes for the cash cards. See Article 15. However BA is entitled to deem the money paid as being part payment of the final settlement. The exception to that is if BA or the courts deem that payment to be ex-gratia, and indeed EC261 is very clear that it sets the minimum level of refund or compensation, not the maximum, that's in Article 12. Clearly this wouldn't apply if you volunteered for an alternative set of travel arrangements in return for some stated benefits. EC261 is mainly concerned about changes for which you didn't volunteer.

It would be helpful if you could post whatever it was you signed. Astonishingly (at least for me) I've only ever seen one such notification, and that no longer appears to be online, so it makes it that much more difficult to help other travellers. You should remove anything that identifies you or the card.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 7:29 am
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by HilFly View Post
BA don't have to seek out rooms where there crew can get adequate rest. But maybe they should bear the consequences of their decision and compensate the passengers delayed and inconvenienced by it.

If I missed a flight because I had overslept after being disturbed by noise at a hotel, I don't think BA would give me a free pass due to circumstances beyond my control.
The choice of crew hotel is not down to BA alone. BALPA also have an input, and may well have some information on hotels they have warned are unsuitable. BA would ignore such warnings at their peril when it comes to delayed flights.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 11:40 am
  #123  
 
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Extraordinary weather conditions incompatible with operation of flight

I'm interest in the interpretation of this. BA are refusing compensation to my cancelled flight due to this exemption. However my flight did fly it was cancelled mid journey home and re-routed back to Berlin where we experienced much turbulence due to a snow storm and landed in far heavier snow than Heathrow had almost 16 hours before. So the weather did not prevent us taking off and flying. Planes were still landing at LHR after ours was due to land. So it wasn't that planes couldn't land there.
so can they still say adverse weather conditions incompatible with operation of flight applied. I notice the BA have twisted the words of this statement and wrote 'incompatible with flight operations' which means whole different ball game to 'incompatible with operation of flight' ??
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Old Jan 31, 18, 11:53 am
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Suz Bishop View Post
so can they still say adverse weather conditions incompatible with operation of flight applied. I notice the BA have twisted the words of this statement and wrote 'incompatible with flight operations' which means whole different ball game to 'incompatible with operation of flight' ??
Yes they can.
Now your previous post was here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29345379-post288.html
where the problem was getting a refund on your expenses / rebooking, I'm assuming this has now been resolved. For the compensation, the weather that day meant you were never in the frame for getting it. The weather that day was sufficiently bad that there is no way that Article 7 compensation would be payable in my view, and I'm fairly certain no other airline would pay it either, it's clearly out of scope in terms of EC261's wording. On the other hand your train fare, food, drink and similar other right of care expenses should in my opinion been paid by BA without quibble.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 12:03 pm
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
It would be helpful if you could post whatever it was you signed. Astonishingly (at least for me) I've only ever seen one such notification, and that no longer appears to be online, so it makes it that much more difficult to help other travellers. You should remove anything that identifies you or the card.
Unfortunately I canít find it so I must have thrown it away. However, I did quickly read the T&Cs at the airport, and it definitely mentioned EC261. I think the wording was such that the cash card was considered EC261 payment, but it didnít say it in a way that made me think I shouldnít sign (though I hesitated). Anyway, I now understand for next time that the rights canít be signed away. I asked the ground staff member but they had no idea.
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Old Feb 2, 18, 6:13 am
  #126  
 
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Just an update on my original post above (111). Following my second reply to BA (third communication from me, if you count the original claim made via the website) they have suddenly re-assessed my claim and confirmed that I am due EUR600. In my most recent reply I had simply restated the facts and asked that if they maintained their position could they provide a deadlock letter so I could proceed to CEDR. The balance owed (taking into account the £250 I received on the CompCard) is now being paid to my account.
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Old Feb 2, 18, 8:24 am
  #127  
 
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Well done for being persistent. However to link to the other thread on this.....I wonder how many people would have given up after 1 or 2 goes and therefore been cheated out of their rightful compensation by BA?
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Old Feb 2, 18, 9:04 am
  #128  
 
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One final thing in case it's of interest - I was travelling with my partner in this case, on the same booking (it was a 241), but we submitted our EC261 claims individually on the BA site, on the day we returned. I received a phone call last weekend rejecting mine, then went through several emails back and forth, until I got my result today. In the meantime, he had heard nothing at all. Then today, shortly after I received an email from BA conceding my claim, he too had an email accepting his claim.
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Old Feb 2, 18, 3:58 pm
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
The trouble is that there is a £35 or £60 court fee involved to get to that evidence, and that is what kropotkin will be risking, along with the moderate paperwork hassle. CEDR would be free but I doubt either of us has the confidence to suggest going that route.
hi just prepared a BA message query and response history but it was rejected I am not allowed to add a new posting hence replying to you direct

I cannot reach deadlock stage with a BA0072 cancelled flight ( Abu Dhabi -)LHR on 6 Nov as they wont respond to 3 follow up messages asking them to substantiate with 3rd party verification that the flight was cancelled due to operational reasons outside of their control I even generated a new case number with the message history copy and pasted in so I had confirmation e mail proof with the new case number but still no response since 3 Dec 2017. How do I get them to respond to deadlock MCOL so I can make a MCOL claim. I have trawled through so many sites trying to find a passenger on the same flight who got them to admit blame so I had the bullets. Is there a site showing reason for cancellation as Flightstats.com does not
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Old Feb 3, 18, 12:46 am
  #130  
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sledge1, welcome to FT and the BA board.

Historical flight information on external websites tends to disappear a few days (at most weeks) after the flight. For something that happened back in November you’re probably going to struggle.

I think you may also be a little confused about the requirements for various escalation routes.

MCOL is a Small Claims Court action that you pay for, but it can be started at any time - you just need to send BA a Letter before Action giving them a reasonable time (usually 14 days) to resolve your claim, and then issue proceedings against them.

CEDR (Centre for Dispute Resolution) does generally require a deadlock letter from the company you’re in dispute with, but it is free for claims against BA. IF you wish to take this route, send BA a final demand for settlement and include in it a statement that you require a deadlock declaration if they are not prepared to pay. You’ll usually get this fairly quickly along with details of the CEDR process.

Incidentally, there is nothing to be gained by re-submitting new claims - this will just be causing confusion and likely holding up the processing.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 1:08 am
  #131  
 
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Originally Posted by sledge1 View Post
hi just prepared a BA message query and response history but it was rejected I am not allowed to add a new posting hence replying to you direct

I cannot reach deadlock stage with a BA0072 cancelled flight ( Abu Dhabi -)LHR on 6 Nov as they wont respond to 3 follow up messages asking them to substantiate with 3rd party verification that the flight was cancelled due to operational reasons outside of their control I even generated a new case number with the message history copy and pasted in so I had confirmation e mail proof with the new case number but still no response since 3 Dec 2017. How do I get them to respond to deadlock MCOL so I can make a MCOL claim. I have trawled through so many sites trying to find a passenger on the same flight who got them to admit blame so I had the bullets. Is there a site showing reason for cancellation as Flightstats.com does not
Welcome to FT.

If BA want to be difficult, I would see two options.

1. Send a letter before action advising that unless they pay you, you will commence action in 14 days.

2. If you don't want the hassle, contact Bott & Co and see if they will work on a no success, no fee basis. Downside is they will take part of the proceeds (about a third I think).

All this assumes your claim has merit and there is not something genuinely exceptional here.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 1:41 pm
  #132  
 
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thanks NW1 Flyer and Simons1

I tried attaching the correspondence with BA to see if others are experiencing the same BA brush off tactics as a public record of how BA operate but got a URL message that I need 5 posting before I can post URL???.

BA advised me on 1 December that they notified me 60 hours of the cancellation before the scheduled flight (which I never received) and rejected my EU compensation claim and that's the last message ever received from BA .

My 3 Dec response asks them .
Q1. To substantiate how they contacted me 60 hours before and forward a copy as proof.
Q2. If they new 60 hours before the scheduled flight was cancelled, why they never offered an alternative carrier to get me to my destination on time.
Q3, Substantiate with 3rd Party independent proof that the flight was cancelled due to operational circumstances beyond their control.

A reminder was sent on the 15 December and a new case was sent on referencing the previous case number on 15 January with a 10 day deadline to respond and nothing has been forthcoming.so will pursue it via MCOL and post the outcome in case anybody else on my flight reads it .including BA thanks again guys.

Your 03 /12/2017 response to my 02/12/2017 fails to answer the questions put to you and is just wasting our time.

If you persist with this approach, I reserve the right to claim 50 pounds sterling for each wasted attempt in communicating with you.

My 2/12/2017 Q2 Asked you why you never offered me an alternative carrier when you cancelled my flight. I have no record of your 03/12/207 claim that you notified me that you cancelled my flight on 03 November at 14:45.which is 60 hours before it was scheduled on 6 November 2017.

Accordingly
Q1 Please advise how you notified me that you cancelled my flight on 03 November at 14:45 and substantiate it with proof.

Q2 If you were aware in advance that you were cancelling the flight you had adequate time to offer me an alternative carrier which you failed to do. Why did you not offer an alternative carrier to get me to my destination on time????

Q3. My 2/12/2017 Q3 asked you "Provide full support documented evidence clearly proofing it was an operational circumstances outside of your control" which you have failed to respond to. Instead you sent me a generic drop down link option (" Confirmation that your BA flight was cancelled") which is time wasting as we are now both fully aware you cancelled the flight 60 hours prior to its scheduled departure. Accordingly you should be fully capable of answering my 2/12/2017 Q3 and submit official proof of your claim endorsed by an independent authority that the you cancelled flight BA0072 for 6 November 60 hours before schedule due to "operational circumstances outside of your control”

Reiterating, failing to answer, I reserve t
Regards
I received a auto reply on 15 January 2018 with Case reference number xxxxx so I have a record have received it but no BA response since 3 December 2017

Last edited by NWIFlyer; Feb 3, 18 at 11:16 pm Reason: Fix formatting for readability & remove case number for member privacy
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Old Feb 3, 18, 1:56 pm
  #133  
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Originally Posted by sledge1 View Post
I tried attaching the correspondence with BA to see if others are experiencing the same BA brush off tactics as a public record of how BA operate but got a URL message that I need 5 posting before I can post URL???.
Indeed there is a rule on FT that limits the use of external links for new members, there are some delightful people out there very keen to tell us about South Korean horse race gambling opportunities, so FT has some restrictions in this area. Let me start by adding my welcome to you sledge1, welcome to the BA forum and welcome to Flyertalk as well. Apart from this thread there is a wealth of information here and I hope you will make good use of it.

I must admit some aspects of your claim are a little unclear, it may just be formatting, but it makes it tricky to give good advice since it's difficult for me to see the whole story here. However if BA cancels a flight, they have to rebook you (sounds like they did) and if that exceeds certain hours and notice periods then Article 7 may be payable. In terms of the 60 hours (?) notice then that seems insufficient. However it is indeed up to BA to prove they did inform you of the change. My experience is that if there was a travel agent involved then this doesn't always happen, usually if it's a direct booking then emails go out and the App has messages.

In terms of taking it forward, then just be clear, short, concise, stick to facts and look at the advice at the top of the thread. We know that methodology has worked for very many passengers.You probably need to send a letter before action and then look at the MCOL process, but if you are going down MCOL you need to clearly understand what you are doing and where the law is sitting in terms of your case.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 3:39 pm
  #134  
 
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Originally Posted by Janusian View Post
Can I just check my understanding of the regs please.

Flying Rotterdam to City today. Original flight delayed then cancelled due to technical fault (this was announced over the tannoy). I was rebooked onto the next flight but landed just over 2 hours late.

My reading of the regs are that I am entitled to compensation of Ä250 as I arrived over 2 hours late and my original flight was cancelled. It seems a bit odd that if the original flight had taken off and I had arrived at the same time I would not have been due any compensation (as delayed flights have to be 3 hours late) but it does seem to be the regs.

Am I missing anything here?
Quick update on this. BA originally refused claim stating delay has to be more than 3 hours. Email back clearly stating I was claiming for cancellation and not delay and therefore reg was 2 not 3 hours. BA now agreed to pay me what is due.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 11:53 pm
  #135  
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Originally Posted by sledge1 View Post
BA advised me on 1 December that they notified me 60 hours of the cancellation before the scheduled flight (which I never received) and rejected my EU compensation claim and that's the last message ever received from BA .

My 3 Dec response asks them .
Q1. To substantiate how they contacted me 60 hours before and forward a copy as proof.
Q2. If they new 60 hours before the scheduled flight was cancelled, why they never offered an alternative carrier to get me to my destination on time.
Q3, Substantiate with 3rd Party independent proof that the flight was cancelled due to operational circumstances beyond their control.
Okay, I’ve taken the liberty as a mod to edit your post to cure some of the formatting issues which sometimes happen (I’d guess you cut and pasted something in HTML format). Hopefully this makes it a bit easier for others to understand the facts and provide advice.

Now, Abu Dubai is a Mixed Fleet route, but by the time of your flight the recent strike was over so we know the cancellation couldn’t have been due to that.

It is operated by a 787-9, however. These are affected by the issue of the turbine blades in the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines wearing quicker than expected, causing a rash of recalls for inspection and maintenance on the recommendation of the manufacturer. BA has been using this as an “extraordinary circumstances” defence (and it’s certainly an arguable one), but usually they state this quickly so it’s surprising they haven’t done so here if that’s the case.

What may not be helping, if I might be frank, is your statement that you’ll charge them £50 for every piece of correspondence that doesn’t meet your requirements. Aside from that being wholly subjective, it has no basis in law, no realistic chance of success, and is merely introducing a distraction. Just concentrate on the facts with BA and don’t sidetrack the discussion.

The strangest thing is that BA didn’t make alternative arrangements for you - this is required under EC261 irrespective of the reason for cancellation (along with offering you the option of a refund). How did you end up making the journey to Heathrow in the end?
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