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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Sep 7, 18, 7:36 am
  #1276  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Cancelled flight - BA0213 LHR to BOS on 7 Sep 2018 - What can I do?

Hi all,

I was due to travel this morning on BA0213 LHR to BOS in World Traveller as a group of four passengers in Economy Class, no status.

Last night, just before going to sleep I happened to check my phone and received the cancellation message (about midnight).

I called BA and after 40 mins spoke to an agent, and the earliest flight they could accommodate all four of us passengers is on tonight's BA0239 at 19:55 which is now confirmed.

What compensation can be claimed in this kind of event?

Thanks,

J
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Old Sep 7, 18, 11:27 am
  #1277  
 
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Just out of interest, do you know why it was cancelled?
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Old Sep 7, 18, 11:30 am
  #1278  
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The reason in EF is “OPEY” which tends to indicate an operational reason and that EC261 compensation is payable.
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Old Sep 8, 18, 12:54 pm
  #1279  
 
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Can I crave an indulgence and ask for an opinion here? (I'll be honest, it's an Easyjet flight, but the same rules will surely apply.)
Friends flight home from NCE was cancelled, they were hotac-ed and flew 24hrs later. Their claim under EC261 has been refused "due to ATC delays" therefore out of EZYs control. Except, they were told on the night the crew had gone out of hours..presumably because of said ATC delay (I assume it was the 3rd sector of a 4 sector day). So surely, EZY should have known the crew would go out of hours, and therefore called in a new crew..so not really out of EZYs control..?
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Old Sep 8, 18, 12:58 pm
  #1280  
 
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Originally Posted by no longer atc View Post
Can I crave an indulgence and ask for an opinion here? (I'll be honest, it's an Easyjet flight, but the same rules will surely apply.)
Friends flight home from NCE was cancelled, they were .hotac-ed and flew 24hrs later. Their claim under EC261 has been refused "due to ATC delays" therefore out of EZYs control. Except, they were told on the night the crew had gone out of hours..presumably because of said ATC delay (I assume it was the 3rd sector of a 4 sector day). So surely, EZY should have known the crew would go out of hours, and therefore called in a new crew..so not really out of EZYs control..?
Fob off by EZY, threaten with MCOL, but you may need to go down that route before they cave.
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Old Sep 8, 18, 1:04 pm
  #1281  
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easyJet are not well known for being forthcoming on EC261, Ryanair are better, strangely. But this is a good example of where you would need to construct the case carefully. ATC is indeed a legitimate extraordinary circumstances defence, but easyJet are also responsible for minimising this and also for the outcomes. So if easyJet could have arranged their crew rotas to avoid this, or there was more they could reasonaby have done to reduce the delay, then they may well be liable. It's not the sort of thing where a quick form filling into to MCOL or CEDR will work, you need to assemble the details and arguments carefully for MCOL. For CEDR you don't have to do this so much, but the argument - and all details - will have to be carefully formulated.
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Old Sep 9, 18, 12:03 pm
  #1282  
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I'm a bit confused. I had a downgrade for 2 pax from F to J on 1 segment (LHR-JNB) on a ticket ORD-LHR-JNB / CPT-LHR-LAX. I used guf2 plus 2-4-1.
How should the refund be calculated?
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Old Sep 9, 18, 12:12 pm
  #1283  
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Originally Posted by jason8612 View Post
I'm a bit confused. I had a downgrade for 2 pax from F to J on 1 segment (LHR-JNB) on a ticket ORD-LHR-JNB / CPT-LHR-LAX. I used guf2 plus 2-4-1.
How should the refund be calculated?
I would compute the GUF and TwoFer upwards to the equivalent in Avios, as if it was a conventional redemption, then pro rata by distance and apply the 75% ratio. The cash component will also be pro rata, presumably just the carrier surcharge rather than underlying taxes. That's what you need to ask for by way of reimbursement. I have a feeling BA will say it equals zero, so you may be in for some interesting times ahead.
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Old Sep 9, 18, 1:15 pm
  #1284  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I would compute the GUF and TwoFer upwards to the equivalent in Avios, as if it was a conventional redemption, then pro rata by distance and apply the 75% ratio. The cash component will also be pro rata, presumably just the carrier surcharge rather than underlying taxes. That's what you need to ask for by way of reimbursement. I have a feeling BA will say it equals zero, so you may be in for some interesting times ahead.
So 75% of the F segment LHR-JNB? F is 85K,so then 63,750. I would have to fight for the second pax I assume plus then the carrier imposed surcharges.
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Old Sep 9, 18, 1:21 pm
  #1285  
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Originally Posted by jason8612 View Post
So 75% of the F segment LHR-JNB? F is 85K,so then 63,750. I would have to fight for the second pax I assume plus then the carrier imposed surcharges.
The calculation is explained at the top of the thread, but it's based on the whole journey, so ORD-RSA-LAX. So assume you booked both travellers in full Avios for the whole trip and then slice down from there. By all means put the details into this thread if you want them worked out. The surcharges should not be a fight issue, the second passenger may be since in the past BA have argued that GUFs and Twofers were "free", however they have lost a number of court cases on this. CEDR have given at least one ruling in the other direction, supporting BA's position (kind of, it was a somewhat unusual logic) so I would be seeking to go MCOL on this.
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Old Sep 9, 18, 2:18 pm
  #1286  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
The calculation is explained at the top of the thread, but it's based on the whole journey, so ORD-RSA-LAX. So assume you booked both travellers in full Avios for the whole trip and then slice down from there. By all means put the details into this thread if you want them worked out. The surcharges should not be a fight issue, the second passenger may be since in the past BA have argued that GUFs and Twofers were "free", however they have lost a number of court cases on this. CEDR have given at least one ruling in the other direction, supporting BA's position (kind of, it was a somewhat unusual logic) so I would be seeking to go MCOL on this.

Sure.
2 pax. 1 pnr. 1x 2-4-1 plus guf2.
Total miles was 247,500 for both pax. (booked into J, guf2 to F)
(ORD-LHR 60,000 miles peak + LHR-JNB 62,500 miles off-peak + JNB-LHR 62,500 miles off-peak + LHR-LAX 62,500 miles off-peak)
Taxes and fees were USD 3949.68 for both pax.
I'm GGL And other pax is Gold.

Looking at the rules, could I fight for the $ difference? Wouldn't that be a significant difference? I never messed with downgrades, only with delays.
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Old Sep 9, 18, 2:52 pm
  #1287  
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Originally Posted by jason8612 View Post
Sure.
2 pax. 1 pnr. 1x 2-4-1 plus guf2.
Total miles was 247,500 for both pax. (booked into J, guf2 to F)
(ORD-LHR 60,000 miles peak + LHR-JNB 62,500 miles off-peak + JNB-LHR 62,500 miles off-peak + LHR-LAX 62,500 miles off-peak)
Taxes and fees were USD 3949.68 for both pax.
OK, so doing a rough and ready calculation here:
Assume fully booked in First Avios, this would be 333,000 Avios per person and let's say GBP 1600 per person cash (exchange rates are moving so much that this is very approx).
Total miles: 21,024, downgraded distance 5,620 (leaving out the FRA complication). Downgraded percentage 26.7%
Avios of that percentage = 89,000 round numbers x 75% = 67,000 each reimbursement round numbers Avios component.

Cash £1600, actual taxes £150 approx, carrier surcharge let's say £1450.
GBP 1450 x 26.7% = GBP 387 x 75% = GBP 290 each reimbursement cash, again round numbers.

Now this is my quick calculation, so regard as it accurate +/- 10% or so. Also note the comment made elsewhere that you opted for this routing voluntarily rather than sitting out the BA delay, which had you done so would have been 600€ per person x 4. Now this can be argued both ways of course ("we saved BA some money" versus "you knowingly accepted the itinerary"). And I repeat the point that BA may regard the second passenger and the GUF to be "free", not refundable and that the second person on the 2-4-1 was also a freebie. I don't agree with this logic, but they have deployed it in the past.

For reference the tax breakdown I get is:
Air Passenger Tax - South Africa GBP 9.60
Passenger Safety Charge - South Africa GBP 1.20
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.30
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.40
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.20
UMSE GBP 1.10
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.40
Passenger Service Charge - South Africa GBP 12.00
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.20
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 67.66
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.50

Total government, authority and airport charges GBP 140.66

British Airways fees and carrier charges
Carrier imposed charge GBP 1,476.20
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges or fuel surcharge, where applicable, per person

Per adult GBP1,616.86
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Old Sep 10, 18, 6:52 am
  #1288  
 
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Hi, Anyone that can help me with this please, trying to find out why BA2710 LGW 19:15 - BCN was cancelled on Friday 31th of Aug?
got the cancellation message 2hr55 before the flight was scheduled.
And no later flights available.
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Old Sep 10, 18, 6:56 am
  #1289  
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Originally Posted by Jordi14 View Post
Hi, Anyone that can help me with this please, trying to find out why BA2710 LGW 19:15 - BCN was cancelled on Friday 31th of Aug?
got the cancellation message 2hr55 before the flight was scheduled.
And no later flights available.
hi. sadly expertflyer only keeps that information for a few days so unfortunately it is long gone now. i did see your original post yesterday and had a search on the board in case there was some obvious disruption at the time or someone else had asked about that flight and the reason was posted - but i couldn't find anything.

were you ever given a reason by ground staff or crew? it may be worth just submitting a claim and seeing what happens.
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Old Sep 10, 18, 7:10 am
  #1290  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
hi. sadly expertflyer only keeps that information for a few days so unfortunately it is long gone now. i did see your original post yesterday and had a search on the board in case there was some obvious disruption at the time or someone else had asked about that flight and the reason was posted - but i couldn't find anything.

were you ever given a reason by ground staff or crew? it may be worth just submitting a claim and seeing what happens.
Thanks for checking !
On the way home back from Gatwick I dropped into T5 and cancelled the whole booking.
as we could not make the proposed times on Saturday.
I asked the lady at ticketing, see checked it and it was technical.
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