May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Aug 20, 2018, 1:38 am
#1186
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
Just out of interest, is there any mechanism for the compensation payments to rise in line with inflation?
Aug 20, 2018, 1:40 am
#1187
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canterbury
Programs: BA Gold TK*Gold
Posts: 56
787 cancellations
Has anyone had any success trying to claim for cancelled flights relating to 787 LAX, was flying this coming Thursday and flight cancelled yesterday and rebooked 4 hours 40 mins later in F on BA269, as within 14 days thought would give a try claiming?
Thanks
Thanks
Aug 20, 2018, 2:09 am
#1188
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Aug 20, 2018, 1:46 pm
#1189
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: AA, BA, SAA, Hertz
Posts: 5
CEDR time
Hi all. Thanks for this fantastic resource. I'm currently "working with" BA regarding a flight from PHX-MUC on May 31, 2018.
We were initially delayed 4 hours getting off the ground in PHX on the PHX-LHR leg of the trip. This of course meant that we missed our connection in LHR. BA was able to get us on the last flight out of LHR that night so we boarded and then proceeded to sit on the runway for an hour. When we finally got airborne we were due to land in MUC at 12:45. All was well and we were descending on approach when the engines powered up and we turned away from the city and headed north. An hour later, we landed in Hannover at 1:45AM and sat on the tarmac while the crew figured out if there was anyone around to offload the plane. The tower in MUC had "assured" the pilot and BA that we would be able to land after the airport closed at 12:30 so the decision was made to take off from LHR!!! Too bad the shift changed and the replacement tower guy shut us down.
We got a hotel in Hannover (same one the crew was at) and slept for a couple hours after arriving there around 3:45am. Of course the crew timed out while in Hannover so they could not fly us until ~5pm the following day.
I finally got BA to pay for the costs of staying in Hannover but they are denying my claim under EC261.
The original delay was due to a baggage truck hitting the plane in PHX and BA is claiming that this is an extraordinary circumstance. I have brought up the following:
"The Court of Justice of the EU ruled in November 2014 in the case of Sandy Stewart and Others v Condor Flugdienst, Case C-394/14, that mobile boarding stairs colliding with an aircraft does not constitute “extraordinary circumstances” relieving the air carrier of its obligation to pay compensation for a flight delay of more than three hours."
But BA is basically ignoring me at this point.
I have also brought up the fact that they did not try to get a replacement crew to Hannover to get us back to MUC with any urgency, instead, they just let us wait around for the entire day.
Am I looking at CEDR or MCOL at this point? I've been back and forth with the online email system 4-5 times over the compensation and they have gone dark.
Thanks for any information you could share or advice to get this compensated. We are a family of 5 so it is not a small amount in total.
We were initially delayed 4 hours getting off the ground in PHX on the PHX-LHR leg of the trip. This of course meant that we missed our connection in LHR. BA was able to get us on the last flight out of LHR that night so we boarded and then proceeded to sit on the runway for an hour. When we finally got airborne we were due to land in MUC at 12:45. All was well and we were descending on approach when the engines powered up and we turned away from the city and headed north. An hour later, we landed in Hannover at 1:45AM and sat on the tarmac while the crew figured out if there was anyone around to offload the plane. The tower in MUC had "assured" the pilot and BA that we would be able to land after the airport closed at 12:30 so the decision was made to take off from LHR!!! Too bad the shift changed and the replacement tower guy shut us down.
We got a hotel in Hannover (same one the crew was at) and slept for a couple hours after arriving there around 3:45am. Of course the crew timed out while in Hannover so they could not fly us until ~5pm the following day.
I finally got BA to pay for the costs of staying in Hannover but they are denying my claim under EC261.
The original delay was due to a baggage truck hitting the plane in PHX and BA is claiming that this is an extraordinary circumstance. I have brought up the following:
"The Court of Justice of the EU ruled in November 2014 in the case of Sandy Stewart and Others v Condor Flugdienst, Case C-394/14, that mobile boarding stairs colliding with an aircraft does not constitute “extraordinary circumstances” relieving the air carrier of its obligation to pay compensation for a flight delay of more than three hours."
But BA is basically ignoring me at this point.
I have also brought up the fact that they did not try to get a replacement crew to Hannover to get us back to MUC with any urgency, instead, they just let us wait around for the entire day.
Am I looking at CEDR or MCOL at this point? I've been back and forth with the online email system 4-5 times over the compensation and they have gone dark.
Thanks for any information you could share or advice to get this compensated. We are a family of 5 so it is not a small amount in total.
Aug 20, 2018, 2:30 pm
#1190
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See here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post24477544
Originally Posted by NickB
Originally Posted by serfty 
It's been over a year since 'amended' draft changes ton the regulation was passed:
There are some significant revisions to EU 261/2004 in the wind; on Feb 5th, the EU passed some amendments which clarifies some things, changes others and introduces more.
What has happened in the 13 months since? Are these to come up for ratification any time soon?
It's been over a year since 'amended' draft changes ton the regulation was passed:
There are some significant revisions to EU 261/2004 in the wind; on Feb 5th, the EU passed some amendments which clarifies some things, changes others and introduces more.
What has happened in the 13 months since? Are these to come up for ratification any time soon?
It seems C/W/S was optimistic in post #202 of that thread ...but who could have expected this to apparently disappear.
: as I stated in post #619 of the thread you referenced, "it is also rather premature to attempt to second guess the contents of any amendment to Reg 261/2004, assuming agreement is ever reached, given the divergent views of Council and Parliament." It is not that I have any special insight but merely some familiarity with EU processes and the fact that, unlike what typically happens at national level in many Member States, there is no EU government that can ram through legislation relying on a Parliamentary majority. Instead, you must secure the agreement of a wider range of actors, which is more difficult and time-consuming.Just a few facts for info, the process is not one of "ratification": the Parliament and the Council are equal co-legislators and each can put forward and adopt amendments. Unless they reach a common view, there will be no legislation. In addition, the Commission itself can amend or withdraw its proposal at various stages.
It is far from rare for legislation to be stuck at that point and to remain dormant for long periods when there are significant disagreements in the Council or between the Council and the Parliament. Some proposals have been in limbo for years and years (although beyond a certain point, that means that the provision is dead and, politically at least, a new proposal will be needed to revive it). The difficulty with this proposal is that different Member States pull in opposite directions and that the pathway towards a text that would be acceptable to everybody in the Council, let alone also acceptable to Parliament, is far from obvious
Incidentally, notwithstanding what CWS said in post #202 of the other thread, the EU legislative process is not especially modelled on the House of Commons or more generally the UK Parliament. Like most bicameral legislatures, there are provisions for first and second readings but that is where the similarities end.
Aug 20, 2018, 6:17 pm
#1191
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
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Posts: 5,114
Aug 20, 2018, 11:52 pm
#1192
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
I finally got my deadlock response from BA today. And of course now the CEDR online application is down. I'll try it again tomorrow and will then do the print/send if necessary. I'm hopeful that BA finally admit fault on this but I guess that will be up to the judgement of the CEDR when the time comes.
https://www.munich-airport.com/night-flight-264466
Aug 22, 2018, 4:03 am
#1193
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: HKG/LHR/JFK
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CEDR/MCOL advice?
Hi,
I'm looking for advice on CEDR v MCOL? The situation is as follows--June 29 flights, in J on a short haul ex-EUR connecting to long haul flight via T5. The inbound flight was delayed (allegedly ATC issues), meaning we would likely miss our connection. BA rebooked us at their own initiative (without any discussion) on a long haul that arrived 7+ hours late. When we arrived at LHR, our initial connecting flight had been delayed as well, giving us (and our bags) plenty of time to make the initial connection, but they refused to offer us that. They're claiming that due to the initial delay they had no choice, although keep misstating parts of what they're claiming in the email communications. The only other claims I've ever had have been very straightforward, but this seems worth pursuing, as it seems an operational claim rather than extraordinary circumstances (out of BA's control).
Thanks!
I'm looking for advice on CEDR v MCOL? The situation is as follows--June 29 flights, in J on a short haul ex-EUR connecting to long haul flight via T5. The inbound flight was delayed (allegedly ATC issues), meaning we would likely miss our connection. BA rebooked us at their own initiative (without any discussion) on a long haul that arrived 7+ hours late. When we arrived at LHR, our initial connecting flight had been delayed as well, giving us (and our bags) plenty of time to make the initial connection, but they refused to offer us that. They're claiming that due to the initial delay they had no choice, although keep misstating parts of what they're claiming in the email communications. The only other claims I've ever had have been very straightforward, but this seems worth pursuing, as it seems an operational claim rather than extraordinary circumstances (out of BA's control).
Thanks!
Aug 23, 2018, 5:01 am
#1194
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Posts: 24
I've just received my email today from BA Customer Relations regarding the claim I made for my delayed flight to DXB on 21st July.
In terms of timelines:
21st July - delayed flight LHR to DXB
2nd August - submitted claim online using their form
23rd August - I received confirmation that I will be receiving the compensation of €2,400.00 stating the payment will be in my account soon
In terms of timelines:
21st July - delayed flight LHR to DXB
2nd August - submitted claim online using their form
23rd August - I received confirmation that I will be receiving the compensation of €2,400.00 stating the payment will be in my account soon
Aug 23, 2018, 5:28 am
#1195
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
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When we arrived at LHR, our initial connecting flight had been delayed as well, giving us (and our bags) plenty of time to make the initial connection, but they refused to offer us that. They're claiming that due to the initial delay they had no choice, although keep misstating parts of what they're claiming in the email communications.
Aug 23, 2018, 9:27 am
#1196
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1
Long time lurker, first time poster.
On 22/7 I was due to fly on BA8456 from AMS to LCY. Approx 6 hrs before departure BA informed me that the flight was cancelled. They offered to rebook me on BA2765 from AMS to LGW. I declined, as this would delay me by more than 3 hrs and fly me to the wrong airport. Instead I rebooked, at my own cost, on a KLM AMS-LCY flight that departed at roughly the same time as BA8456 should have done.
I have received a refund for my cancelled flight, but BA refuse to pay compensation under EC/261, and give as the reason that “the captain for your flight was ill. The cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken”. I have since found out that flight BA8455 (LCY to AMS) was cancelled as well, and it appears that BA took the decision to cancel both flights because they were unable or unwilling to call up a replacement for the sick pilot, even though they had a reasonable amount of time to do so.
I have contacted BA Customer Services a number of times via their webform, but this route has now been exhausted. Looking at the advice at the start of this thread, the next step is to write to the company and give the airline 14 days to respond.
The questions I have are:
a) Should the letter be addressed to BA (who I booked the ticket with) or BA Cityflyer (who were due to operate the flight). I believe they have different registered business addresses.
b) Assuming that this doesn’t get me anywhere, should the next step be to go to the CEDR or the MCOL. I am aware that there have been at least two cases were the MCOL ruled in favour of the claimant in case of crew sickness, but has anyone successfully pursued a crew sickness claim with the CEDR?
On 22/7 I was due to fly on BA8456 from AMS to LCY. Approx 6 hrs before departure BA informed me that the flight was cancelled. They offered to rebook me on BA2765 from AMS to LGW. I declined, as this would delay me by more than 3 hrs and fly me to the wrong airport. Instead I rebooked, at my own cost, on a KLM AMS-LCY flight that departed at roughly the same time as BA8456 should have done.
I have received a refund for my cancelled flight, but BA refuse to pay compensation under EC/261, and give as the reason that “the captain for your flight was ill. The cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken”. I have since found out that flight BA8455 (LCY to AMS) was cancelled as well, and it appears that BA took the decision to cancel both flights because they were unable or unwilling to call up a replacement for the sick pilot, even though they had a reasonable amount of time to do so.
I have contacted BA Customer Services a number of times via their webform, but this route has now been exhausted. Looking at the advice at the start of this thread, the next step is to write to the company and give the airline 14 days to respond.
The questions I have are:
a) Should the letter be addressed to BA (who I booked the ticket with) or BA Cityflyer (who were due to operate the flight). I believe they have different registered business addresses.
b) Assuming that this doesn’t get me anywhere, should the next step be to go to the CEDR or the MCOL. I am aware that there have been at least two cases were the MCOL ruled in favour of the claimant in case of crew sickness, but has anyone successfully pursued a crew sickness claim with the CEDR?
Aug 23, 2018, 7:07 pm
#1197
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NYC/CLT/LHR
Programs: AA Plat, Bonvoy Gold, SkyMiles Dirt
Posts: 446
Still not completely clear on a situation involving a connection
If we were downgraded on the final leg of a flight LHR-PHL-CLT due to a delay--replacing a tire--that made us miss a connection in PHL and were put on the next flight, but downgraded to Y, do I contact BA or AA for the difference in fare on the PHL-CLT leg? (2.27 delay from originally scheduled arrival time in CLT)
If we were downgraded on the final leg of a flight LHR-PHL-CLT due to a delay--replacing a tire--that made us miss a connection in PHL and were put on the next flight, but downgraded to Y, do I contact BA or AA for the difference in fare on the PHL-CLT leg? (2.27 delay from originally scheduled arrival time in CLT)
Aug 23, 2018, 11:25 pm
#1198
Community Director
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The questions I have are:
a) Should the letter be addressed to BA (who I booked the ticket with) or BA Cityflyer (who were due to operate the flight). I believe they have different registered business addresses.
b) Assuming that this doesn’t get me anywhere, should the next step be to go to the CEDR or the MCOL. I am aware that there have been at least two cases were the MCOL ruled in favour of the claimant in case of crew sickness, but has anyone successfully pursued a crew sickness claim with the CEDR?
a) Should the letter be addressed to BA (who I booked the ticket with) or BA Cityflyer (who were due to operate the flight). I believe they have different registered business addresses.
b) Assuming that this doesn’t get me anywhere, should the next step be to go to the CEDR or the MCOL. I am aware that there have been at least two cases were the MCOL ruled in favour of the claimant in case of crew sickness, but has anyone successfully pursued a crew sickness claim with the CEDR?
You need to write to BA Cityflyer. The same legal department at BA will deal with it, but you’re astute in identifying that the airlines are different entities with their own structure and certification.
I would personally think MCOL would be better for this - you’re looking at crew sickness at an airport that’s not a major hub for the airline (but still a significant point of operations), plus Cityflyer is not as big an operation so I can see BA arguing it would be reasonable not to have spare captains - as opposed to Cabin Crew - on standby. CEDR might just buy that - a court probably would not.
Aug 24, 2018, 1:19 am
#1199
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,188
Got a reply from BA customer relations regarding my flight BA945 (DUS-LHR) on 28th July, saying due to weather-related problem that were out of their control (I understand this part), that they were not able to offer me the compensation due for my 11 hours delay under EC261. But funny enough they said that this made the crew and aircraft going out of normal rotation, when I was just waiting for the aircraft to arrive from LHR, as it would be the same aircraft and crew that turnsround and head back to London, so there shouldn't be any cases of aircraft and crew out of rotation right?
Any expert think I can pursue this further?
Any expert think I can pursue this further?
Aug 24, 2018, 1:34 am
#1200
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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b) Assuming that this doesn’t get me anywhere, should the next step be to go to the CEDR or the MCOL. I am aware that there have been at least two cases were the MCOL ruled in favour of the claimant in case of crew sickness, but has anyone successfully pursued a crew sickness claim with the CEDR?
