May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Aug 13, 2018, 12:30 am
#1126
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,590
If the flight is covered under EC261, then you are entitled to a 75% refund for the flight that was downgraded
Aug 13, 2018, 12:33 am
#1127
Community Director
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Further to above that I posted Thursday, I have just received the below which is astonishing. Can’t be right can it? The reply quotes all 4 ticket numbers.
“Thank you for your request of a refund.
We regret to inform you that we are unable to refund for the above-mentioned ticket
As per our calculation there is no refund due for above mentioned ticket due to downgrade from First class to Business Class. Hence there is no refund amount due.
I hope this information has clarified the situation. Assuring you of our best attention at all times.
Yours sincerely
British Airways Global Refunds Agent Reference”
It looks to me like this has been wrongly routed - it should have gone to BAEC to return some Avios.
Under EC261, where there are no extraordinary circumstances criteria on downgrades, you are entitled to 75% of the Avios and 75% of the cash component (less taxes, so essentially YQ) for that sector back.
I’d probably ring BAEC to query it, see what they offer, and if it’s nowhere near your EC261 entitlement give them notice and start the MCOL process.
Aug 13, 2018, 1:52 am
#1128
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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What I would do is a back of an envelope calculation of what the refund should look like, and press for that. The logic is shown via the link in post 5, and I would regard the 2-4-1 as being the equivalent number of Avios. This used to be disputed by BA but now seems to be accepted by at least the legal teams.
Aug 13, 2018, 2:12 am
#1129
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL & CCR, GFL
Posts: 495
Evening All,
My recent flight to from LGW to DLM was delayed by 3.5 hours as the plane allocated for the flight was out of position due to adverse weather in Amsterdam the previous day. I filed an EC/261 compensation claim as I believed airlines cannot claim extraordinary circumstances when planes are out of position and I don't believe there were any ATC restrictions at LGW the day of my flight. BA have rejected my claim for the following reason:
"Thanks for your recent email. I understand how disappointed you must have been when your flight to Dalaman was delayed, it must have disrupted your plans. Please accept our apologies.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because BA2562 on 28 July was delayed due to operational circumstances outside of our control. The aircraft due to operate your flight had been held up in Amsterdam the previous day due to adverse weather. Unfortunately even after the flight departed the delay was extended further due to Air Traffic Control restrictions. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
Thanks again for getting in touch with us. We value your support as a Gold member of our Executive Club. I hope you enjoy your flight with us on 11 August. Please feel free to contact me directly using the blue link below if I can help you with anything else."
I'm not fully up-to-speed on the meaning of delay codes on Expert Flyer but I believe the flight would be annotated as ZW if it was weather related:
I believe ZY means rotational delay (i.e. the previous service delayed the availability of the aircraft.) and ZO is Operation (less of an idea what this could cover). Are BA fobbing me off or have I misinterpreted the entitlement?
Thanks
My recent flight to from LGW to DLM was delayed by 3.5 hours as the plane allocated for the flight was out of position due to adverse weather in Amsterdam the previous day. I filed an EC/261 compensation claim as I believed airlines cannot claim extraordinary circumstances when planes are out of position and I don't believe there were any ATC restrictions at LGW the day of my flight. BA have rejected my claim for the following reason:
"Thanks for your recent email. I understand how disappointed you must have been when your flight to Dalaman was delayed, it must have disrupted your plans. Please accept our apologies.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because BA2562 on 28 July was delayed due to operational circumstances outside of our control. The aircraft due to operate your flight had been held up in Amsterdam the previous day due to adverse weather. Unfortunately even after the flight departed the delay was extended further due to Air Traffic Control restrictions. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
Thanks again for getting in touch with us. We value your support as a Gold member of our Executive Club. I hope you enjoy your flight with us on 11 August. Please feel free to contact me directly using the blue link below if I can help you with anything else."
I'm not fully up-to-speed on the meaning of delay codes on Expert Flyer but I believe the flight would be annotated as ZW if it was weather related:
I believe ZY means rotational delay (i.e. the previous service delayed the availability of the aircraft.) and ZO is Operation (less of an idea what this could cover). Are BA fobbing me off or have I misinterpreted the entitlement?
Thanks
They settled on the final day of the process for the full compensation due.
Am am happy to DM my correspondence letter and the judge’s searching questions to EZY if that’s useful to others.
Aug 13, 2018, 3:12 am
#1130
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
IOM-LCY cancellation: compensation and costs?
So, I was due to fly home last night on BA3287 IOM -LCY which was cancelled with passengers offered to be re-booked onto today's flight, 24 hours late. As we absolutely had to be back and in work today we secured last minute flights on Flybe from IOM-LPL, the only route with any seats left, and then hired a car for the long drive home to London. Not happy and seriously out of pocket.
Eastern were handing out the standard compensation letter, and I guess we are entitled to €250 each under EU261. My question is can we also claim for the alternative travel costs, or are we suppose to absorb them from the €250? To be clear BA was offering nothing other than a 24 hour delay, no mention of alternative flights or overnight hotels (not that it was an option for us to stay!)
Thanks guys.
Eastern were handing out the standard compensation letter, and I guess we are entitled to €250 each under EU261. My question is can we also claim for the alternative travel costs, or are we suppose to absorb them from the €250? To be clear BA was offering nothing other than a 24 hour delay, no mention of alternative flights or overnight hotels (not that it was an option for us to stay!)
Thanks guys.
Aug 13, 2018, 3:22 am
#1131
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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There have been a number of IOM cancellations recently (and FT threads on the issue), the underlying cause appears to be crew or aircraft shortage on the Eastern side.
The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
Aug 13, 2018, 3:33 am
#1132
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
There have been a number of IOM cancellations recently (and FT threads on the issue), the underlying cause appears to be crew or aircraft shortage on the Eastern side.
The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
Sadly this was a mileage flight, so no big refund for us. And sadly it has put us off going back to the IoM, which we really liked. It is so much easier to get to than Cornwall from London, just as beautiful and far far less crowded. If only a proper airline served the LCY route!
Aug 13, 2018, 4:21 am
#1133
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 226
.Will they still pay for his Friday night hotel since he made his own arrangements and didn't wait until Sunday for the next flight?
Aug 13, 2018, 5:14 am
#1134
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Aug 13, 2018, 7:28 am
#1135
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
I would guess the underlying reason is a shortage of aircraft is the cause of the problem. The 787 engine issue means that they only have just enough aircraft for the timetable, if anything goes wrong (such as a very late running inbound service) then something has to be cancelled. I would say you have a good basis for an EC261 Article 7 claim, and as you say since you are scheduled to be around 2 hours late into SJC then the basis is going to be cut by half, so yes, 300€ per person. However we perhaps best look at that once you get through the trip, you have a short-ish ORD connection.
I will mention EC261 on claim form as advised in the wiki. Any guidance on whether I should state on the form that my expectation is 300 Euro per person or best to just provide the facts about the cancellation/ re-route and see what BA comes back with?
Aug 13, 2018, 7:32 am
#1136
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I doubt it makes much difference one way or the other. I would keep the submission as short as possible, but I guess if the processing agent and you rapidly align on the same figure then it may make it marginly faster to write the reply email to you.
Aug 13, 2018, 7:43 am
#1137
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: Gold at BA, Hilton and Radisson.
Posts: 591
Hi all,
BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.
BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?
Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!
Many thanks!
BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.
BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?
Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!
Many thanks!
Aug 13, 2018, 7:46 am
#1138
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,612
Hi all,
BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.
BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?
Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!
Many thanks!
BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.
BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?
Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!
Many thanks!
Aug 13, 2018, 9:14 am
#1139
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: Gold at BA, Hilton and Radisson.
Posts: 591
Awesome that is great to know.
Would BA pay for another flight? They’ve said they can’t put me on the 19:10 to LCY as the original was to LHR... If i just buy a ticket for that... would they refund it do you think?
Would BA pay for another flight? They’ve said they can’t put me on the 19:10 to LCY as the original was to LHR... If i just buy a ticket for that... would they refund it do you think?
Aug 13, 2018, 9:25 am
#1140
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Having a look at availability though it is showing as 0 right across all selling classes so I am afraid they won't be able to put you on it and neither will there be tickets available for you to buy.