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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: serfty
Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 12:30 am
  #1126  
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If the flight is covered under EC261, then you are entitled to a 75% refund for the flight that was downgraded
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Old Aug 13, 18, 12:33 am
  #1127  
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Originally Posted by BA_Pax View Post


Further to above that I posted Thursday, I have just received the below which is astonishing. Can’t be right can it? The reply quotes all 4 ticket numbers.

Thank you for your request of a refund.
We regret to inform you that we are unable to refund for the above-mentioned ticket
As per our calculation there is no refund due for above mentioned ticket due to downgrade from First class to Business Class. Hence there is no refund amount due.
I hope this information has clarified the situation. Assuring you of our best attention at all times.
Yours sincerely
British Airways Global Refunds Agent Reference”
If the YQ was higher for F (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t), you would certainly have been due a refund of the cash difference for that. Perhaps it was the same, which is why a department that deals only with “real” money can't see you need anything back on a standard BA cash (i.e. not EC261) calculation.

It looks to me like this has been wrongly routed - it should have gone to BAEC to return some Avios.

Under EC261, where there are no extraordinary circumstances criteria on downgrades, you are entitled to 75% of the Avios and 75% of the cash component (less taxes, so essentially YQ) for that sector back.

I’d probably ring BAEC to query it, see what they offer, and if it’s nowhere near your EC261 entitlement give them notice and start the MCOL process.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 1:52 am
  #1128  
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Originally Posted by BA_Pax View Post
Further to above that I posted Thursday, I have just received the below which is astonishing. Can’t be right can it? The reply quotes all 4 ticket numbers.
This mentioned a few times up thread, this is the Involuntary Fare Refund process, and on an Avios booking it isn't going to work, particularly if someone is using (e.g.) Tampa versus Orlando routings one way via AA. I agree with NWIFlyer that you better go back to BAEC, perhaps by telephone, to discuss this since this isn't the right process.

What I would do is a back of an envelope calculation of what the refund should look like, and press for that. The logic is shown via the link in post 5, and I would regard the 2-4-1 as being the equivalent number of Avios. This used to be disputed by BA but now seems to be accepted by at least the legal teams.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 2:12 am
  #1129  
 
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Originally Posted by leshark View Post
Evening All,

My recent flight to from LGW to DLM was delayed by 3.5 hours as the plane allocated for the flight was out of position due to adverse weather in Amsterdam the previous day. I filed an EC/261 compensation claim as I believed airlines cannot claim extraordinary circumstances when planes are out of position and I don't believe there were any ATC restrictions at LGW the day of my flight. BA have rejected my claim for the following reason:

"Thanks for your recent email. I understand how disappointed you must have been when your flight to Dalaman was delayed, it must have disrupted your plans. Please accept our apologies.

Your claim for compensation has been refused because BA2562 on 28 July was delayed due to operational circumstances outside of our control. The aircraft due to operate your flight had been held up in Amsterdam the previous day due to adverse weather. Unfortunately even after the flight departed the delay was extended further due to Air Traffic Control restrictions. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.

Thanks again for getting in touch with us. We value your support as a Gold member of our Executive Club. I hope you enjoy your flight with us on 11 August. Please feel free to contact me directly using the blue link below if I can help you with anything else."

I'm not fully up-to-speed on the meaning of delay codes on Expert Flyer but I believe the flight would be annotated as ZW if it was weather related:



I believe ZY means rotational delay (i.e. the previous service delayed the availability of the aircraft.) and ZO is Operation (less of an idea what this could cover). Are BA fobbing me off or have I misinterpreted the entitlement?

Thanks
I recently took EZY to MCOL about something similar. Our aircraft was out of position thanks to weather earlier in the day elsewhere on their network.

They settled on the final day of the process for the full compensation due.

Am am happy to DM my correspondence letter and the judge’s searching questions to EZY if that’s useful to others.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 3:12 am
  #1130  
 
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IOM-LCY cancellation: compensation and costs?

So, I was due to fly home last night on BA3287 IOM -LCY which was cancelled with passengers offered to be re-booked onto today's flight, 24 hours late. As we absolutely had to be back and in work today we secured last minute flights on Flybe from IOM-LPL, the only route with any seats left, and then hired a car for the long drive home to London. Not happy and seriously out of pocket.

Eastern were handing out the standard compensation letter, and I guess we are entitled to €250 each under EU261. My question is can we also claim for the alternative travel costs, or are we suppose to absorb them from the €250? To be clear BA was offering nothing other than a 24 hour delay, no mention of alternative flights or overnight hotels (not that it was an option for us to stay!)

Thanks guys.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 3:22 am
  #1131  
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There have been a number of IOM cancellations recently (and FT threads on the issue), the underlying cause appears to be crew or aircraft shortage on the Eastern side.

The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 3:33 am
  #1132  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
There have been a number of IOM cancellations recently (and FT threads on the issue), the underlying cause appears to be crew or aircraft shortage on the Eastern side.

The EC261 Thread should be your starting point here (available via the Dashboard). It is unlikely you will get a direct refund of the replacement flight / car hire, but I would certainly encourage you to try it. However you would get the EC261 Article 7 compensation, plus an Involuntary Fare Refund on the flight, so typically half of the return cost. More broadly the CAA has been in hefty dialogue with Ryanair over some of their rebooking procedures and the two sides appear to have landed on "same day or next day" as being good enough to meet the Regulation. However there is at least one CAA leaftlet which implies that if an airline refuses to rebook the same day then you may have an argument to self-rebook. This is still far from a certain position but I suspect it may lead someone to a senior court case at some point - which to my knowledge hasn't yet happened.
Thanks c-w-s. It doesn't surprise me that there have been IOM cancellations - the lady at the car hire in Douglas said this has been happening frequently. I also think it is due to Eastern Airways crew issues - the inbound flight left LCY after our return had been cancelled, so the plane was fine even though they told us it had gone tech.
Sadly this was a mileage flight, so no big refund for us. And sadly it has put us off going back to the IoM, which we really liked. It is so much easier to get to than Cornwall from London, just as beautiful and far far less crowded. If only a proper airline served the LCY route!
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Old Aug 13, 18, 4:21 am
  #1133  
 
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Originally Posted by serfty View Post
Did BA not put them up in a hotel and feed them etc. under Duty of Care provisions?

There is no exclusion from the Duty of care provisions under eu261/2004 - extraordinary circumstances are irrelevant.
No they didn't. He said they didn't even mention this to him. He sorted himself out on Friday night with a hotel etc. and then got himself home on Saturday via train having "washed (his) keks in a sink like it was the 1940s or something" .
Will they still pay for his Friday night hotel since he made his own arrangements and didn't wait until Sunday for the next flight?
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Old Aug 13, 18, 5:14 am
  #1134  
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Originally Posted by patersoj View Post
Will they still pay for his Friday night hotel since he made his own arrangements and didn't wait until Sunday for the next flight?
Yes, he should do, certainly for the Friday night given it was cancelled late on.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 7:28 am
  #1135  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I would guess the underlying reason is a shortage of aircraft is the cause of the problem. The 787 engine issue means that they only have just enough aircraft for the timetable, if anything goes wrong (such as a very late running inbound service) then something has to be cancelled. I would say you have a good basis for an EC261 Article 7 claim, and as you say since you are scheduled to be around 2 hours late into SJC then the basis is going to be cut by half, so yes, 300€ per person. However we perhaps best look at that once you get through the trip, you have a short-ish ORD connection.
Thank you again corporate-wage-slave. Follow up info... I'm happy to report that we made the connection at ORD. (By the skin of our teeth - the place was a zoo yesterday afternoon!) I will submit a claim to BA per item #27 in the wiki and report back to you/ the forum on how that goes.

I will mention EC261 on claim form as advised in the wiki. Any guidance on whether I should state on the form that my expectation is 300 Euro per person or best to just provide the facts about the cancellation/ re-route and see what BA comes back with?
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Old Aug 13, 18, 7:32 am
  #1136  
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Originally Posted by sgd View Post
I will mention EC261 on claim form as advised in the wiki. Any guidance on whether I should state on the form that my expectation is 300 Euro per person or best to just provide the facts about the cancellation/ re-route and see what BA comes back with?
I doubt it makes much difference one way or the other. I would keep the submission as short as possible, but I guess if the processing agent and you rapidly align on the same figure then it may make it marginly faster to write the reply email to you.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 7:43 am
  #1137  
 
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Hi all,

BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.

BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?

Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!

Many thanks!
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Old Aug 13, 18, 7:46 am
  #1138  
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Originally Posted by ScienceTeacher View Post
Hi all,

BA719 from Zurich to Heathrow has been cancelled tonight due to weather, I think. I’ve been rebooked onto tomorrow’s flight leaving at 10am.

BA have a duty of care, right? I’m at the airport now but can’t see anybody who can help. If I book a hotel, how much is reasonable? Will meals be covered? And train fares back and forth?

Given this is Switzerland everything is pretty damn expensive!

Many thanks!
The going rate seems to be £200, plus your meals and travel expenses. If you can't get anything for £200 or less, then BA may initially only pay £200. You can then take it further if necessary to reclaim the rest.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 9:14 am
  #1139  
 
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Awesome that is great to know.

Would BA pay for another flight? They’ve said they can’t put me on the 19:10 to LCY as the original was to LHR... If i just buy a ticket for that... would they refund it do you think?
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Old Aug 13, 18, 9:25 am
  #1140  
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Originally Posted by ScienceTeacher View Post
They’ve said they can’t put me on the 19:10 to LCY as the original was to LHR
There is no reason in principle if seats are available that they can't book you on to a BACF LCY flight - if this is really what was said and meant it is rubbish.

Having a look at availability though it is showing as 0 right across all selling classes so I am afraid they won't be able to put you on it and neither will there be tickets available for you to buy.
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