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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Aug 3, 18, 11:01 pm
  #1066  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
If it's a pure delay, so the aircraft did eventually run then you need to actually travel on the service, and thereby be delayed, to get the article 7 compensation. If it was (eventually) cancelled then you can claim compenstion. Now if you can prove you actually were personally delayed 3 hours I think you still have a case, particularly in line with the cancellation equivalence, however the underlying legal cases for delay compensation all relate to passengers who actually travelled. The Regulation doesn't provide any compensation for delays, that has come about via jurdicial oversight, hence the difficulty.
Thanks for this. What do you mean by being personally delayed? If you mean the time wasted by going to the airport and back I can probably prove that. If you mean delayed at destination I decided not to take the flight (which did operate but several hours later) as the planned meeting couldn't take place anymore.
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Old Aug 4, 18, 12:11 am
  #1067  
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Originally Posted by wobbly wings View Post
Thanks for this. What do you mean by being personally delayed? If you mean the time wasted by going to the airport and back I can probably prove that. If you mean delayed at destination I decided not to take the flight (which did operate but several hours later) as the planned meeting couldn't take place anymore.
The regulation merely covers, as you’d probably expect, the flight delay only. How you choose to spend the rest of your time getting to and from the airport is not part of the equation.

As you’ve chosen not to take a flight that wasn’t cancelled, and didn’t apparently make any attempt to travel by alternative means, I’m afraid my reading is that you’re not entitled to any delay compensation.
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Old Aug 4, 18, 6:19 am
  #1068  
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Originally Posted by wobbly wings View Post
Thanks for this. What do you mean by being personally delayed? If you mean the time wasted by going to the airport and back I can probably prove that. If you mean delayed at destination I decided not to take the flight (which did operate but several hours later) as the planned meeting couldn't take place anymore.
Originally Posted by NWIFlyer View Post
As you’ve chosen not to take a flight that wasn’t cancelled, and didn’t apparently make any attempt to travel by alternative means, I’m afraid my reading is that you’re not entitled to any delay compensation.
Yes, cancellation is different to delay, delays are not in the Regulation but come via judicial processes. With a cancellation you don't have the option to wait for the service to eventually take off - the flight is gone. If it's a delay, not extraordinary circumstances, you either have to wait it out, or you have to take an alternative service after a 3 hour delay, but if you abandon the service you just get the fare refunded (though that would be after 5 hours of delay unless allowed before that). Furthermore the 3 hrs + alternative service isn't totally guaranteed, and you're unlikely to get it if you switch carrier off your own back.
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Old Aug 5, 18, 1:25 pm
  #1069  
 
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Hi,

I have a BA ticketed booking to Orlando which is DUB-LHR-JFK-MCO-LGW-AMS

The final leg LGW-AMS flight has just been cancelled with 11 days' notice. I will land at LGW 920am. Assuming 3.5 hour MCT, I think I could get the 1300 from LHR-AMS, which would be a 2hr20min delay to final destination. (i have already been automatically rebooked on another LGW-AMS, but it's below MCT so it won't stick).

I had a couple of questions. Apologies I know the wiki is very comprehensive but I still find it a bit complex!
- How is this treated in terms of distance? Long haul per the itinerary, or short haul per the affected sector?
- Would BA expect that I should get myself from LGW to LHR, hence technically allowing them to offer a re-route with a relatively short delay but at more inconvenience (vs a longer wait in the LGW lounge).
- If I cancelled the whole itinerary i) would I get a refund on this non-refundable ticket and ii) would I be eligible to receive compensation?
- Would a free of charge date change to the itinerary be allowed (I think subject to same fare class availability), and would compensation be due

Thanks!
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Old Aug 5, 18, 1:32 pm
  #1070  
 
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If you cancel you get a full refund but no comoensation

yes you could ask for a date change (a couple of days either side is BA policy ) but again no comoensation.

you have to fly and actually be delayed to get tha compensation
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Old Aug 5, 18, 1:37 pm
  #1071  
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Originally Posted by woglet86 View Post
Hi,
(i have already been automatically rebooked on another LGW-AMS, but it's below MCT so it won't stick).
Is that the BA2760 at 10:40? If so that is within MCT.

Your options are indeed to cancel the ticket for a full refund (assuming you haven't travelled any of it); or a reroute at a time of your choosing (e.g. your next ex AMS service). There are various rules on fare buckets but on that route I doubt you will be denied a move to more or less any service. You could only get compensation if the flight suggested by BA (which could also be LCY....) was more than 4 hours late into AMS (see 4.1.ii of the Regs). If you choose another option that takes longer than that I can't see that giving you compensation. Ditto with the cancellation if BA proposes a schedule inside the 4 hour margin then a cancellation gives no extra compensation.
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Old Aug 5, 18, 2:04 pm
  #1072  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Is that the BA2760 at 10:40? If so that is within MCT.

Your options are indeed to cancel the ticket for a full refund (assuming you haven't travelled any of it); or a reroute at a time of your choosing (e.g. your next ex AMS service). There are various rules on fare buckets but on that route I doubt you will be denied a move to more or less any service. You could only get compensation if the flight suggested by BA (which could also be LCY....) was more than 4 hours late into AMS (see 4.1.ii of the Regs). If you choose another option that takes longer than that I can't see that giving you compensation. Ditto with the cancellation if BA proposes a schedule inside the 4 hour margin then a cancellation gives no extra compensation.
Thanks very much. The 1040am is the one that was cancelled - the rebooking is one that takes off before I land!

I think i’ll wait to see what the system suggests when it catches the connection mistake and take it from there. It doesn't seem ideal they could discharge their obligations and avoid compensation simply by offering a LGW-LHR connection when the original was LGW-LGW, but I personally wouldn’t be put out enough to argue for anything. Just wouldn’t turn compensation down if it was due!

Thanks
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Old Aug 5, 18, 3:45 pm
  #1073  
 
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Originally Posted by woglet86 View Post
It doesn't seem ideal they could discharge their obligations and avoid compensation simply by offering a LGW-LHR connection when the original was LGW-LGW, but I personally wouldn’t be put out enough to argue for anything.
If BA (on their own initiative) rebooks you on a new itinerary which involves an airport change when the previous itinerary had none, I would hope they would reimburse reasonable travel expenses between the airports. (But, that is separate from “compensation”.)
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Old Aug 5, 18, 4:11 pm
  #1074  
 
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Asking after hearing this from a friend - apologies for the vagueness:

Originally booked on United from USA to Heathrow
United flight delayed then cancelled so rebooked onto BA direct to Heathrow. Given boarding cards and new e-ticket numbers.
Denied boarding at the gate due to insufficient catering on board - BA gate agent said United shouldn't have moved pax onto BA at the last minute without checking!
United then rebooked them onto a later BA flight which got them into London Heathrow about 8 hours after the original United arrival, and about 5 hours after the first BA flight they were moved onto.

They are claiming compensation off United (not via EU261 as that doesn’t apply, just via their own customer relations policy) as they are the ones at fault, but I just wondered purely out of my own curiosity what EU261 says about the move from United to the first BA to the second BA flight - would this be considered IDB from the first BA flight or would they argue this isn’t BA’s issue since United (a non EU carrier) was to blame initially and hence EU261 doesn’t apply here?
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Old Aug 5, 18, 4:28 pm
  #1075  
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Originally Posted by HarryKUK View Post
They are claiming compensation off United (not via EU261 as that doesn’t apply, just via their own customer relations policy) as they are the ones at fault, but I just wondered purely out of my own curiosity what EU261 says about the move from United to the first BA to the second BA flight - would this be considered IDB from the first BA flight or would they argue this isn’t BA’s issue since United (a non EU carrier) was to blame initially and hence EU261 doesn’t apply here?

I suspect it won't be regarded as IDB, but there is certainly an argument that could be played out. I don't think it's an entirely clear case. The argument for denying compensation is that I would be pretty sure that BA did not accept the reservation, at least at the ticketing level, but UA got a reservation in anyway via a ropey GDS interface. So presumably the customer never had an e-ticket saying "you are on BAnnn". And at that point EC261 would not apply. On the other hand, the internal machinations of the inter-airline ticketing are not the concern of the passenger, and since EC261 is all about protecting the customer's interest, plus he or she may have had some PNR printout saying "you are on BAnnn", then BA may have been on the hook here, somewhat unfairly perhaps, assuming the judge was minded in a conflicted set of arguments to go to the Regulation's underlying bias.
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Old Aug 5, 18, 4:41 pm
  #1076  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post

I suspect it won't be regarded as IDB, but there is certainly an argument that could be played out. I don't think it's an entirely clear case. The argument for denying compensation is that I would be pretty sure that BA did not accept the reservation, at least at the ticketing level, but UA got a reservation in anyway via a ropey GDS interface. So presumably the customer never had an e-ticket saying "you are on BAnnn". And at that point EC261 would not apply. On the other hand, the internal machinations of the inter-airline ticketing are not the concern of the passenger, and since EC261 is all about protecting the customer's interest, plus he or she may have had some PNR printout saying "you are on BAnnn", then BA may have been on the hook here, somewhat unfairly perhaps, assuming the judge was minded in a conflicted set of arguments to go to the Regulation's underlying bias.
The main reason my friend is not pursuing
this is they accept it is not BA’s problem, I just wondered purely out of interest.

The document I am looking at is on United paper, with a PNR which was viewable on BA.com (isn’t anymore) and new ticket numbers for the BA flight (on United stock). It also has the first BA flight number and times and so on. They had this document before the inbound flight had landed but after Check in had opened for the first BA flight so it wasn’t that late. Maybe 2 hours before departure.

Anyway, like I said, United are paying out I think so it’s a purely hypothetical question.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 3:50 am
  #1077  
 
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Originally Posted by PWOZUK View Post
Hope this is the correct forum - if not apologies and Mods, please feel free to move.

Can anyone help with the reason yesterdays (28/7/2018) LCY-IOM BA3284 was cancelled? Seems the previous IOM-LCY service was also cancelled. Anecdotally we were told by airside customer service that the inbound aircraft had gone tech - but they seemed completely overwhelmed by the situation, given that the following direct BA service was more than 24hours later (i.e today). NO mention was made of weather related issues, and had been accepted for flight - bag checked in - and I was through security.From my reading of this forum , EC261 should apply even if I subsequently had to cancel the (deferred) flight as arriving 24+ hour later rather negated my reason for travelling. Further annoyance was to find that I had been rebooked and downgraded from CE to ET on the later flight, only to be offfered the "opportunity" to buy an upgrade for £59 when I checked on MMB.
Update : Phone call from BA this morning accepting my travel (train) and sandwich expenses of circa £16 to get home to Sussex from LCY (not suprising really as I had declined their offer of a taxi from LCY to south of LGW, thus saving them money). Also accepted that cancellation was due to techical issue and that since the alternate flight offered was some 24+ hours later than original, I was entitled to the EUR250 EC261 compensation.

The fact that subsequentally I had to cancel my use of the alternate flight as I was not going to get IOM in time for the intended purpose of the travel has not affected my claim.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 4:08 am
  #1078  
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Originally Posted by HarryKUK View Post
The document I am looking at is on United paper, with a PNR which was viewable on BA.com (isn’t anymore) and new ticket numbers for the BA flight (on United stock). It also has the first BA flight number and times and so on. They had this document before the inbound flight had landed but after Check in had opened for the first BA flight so it wasn’t that late. Maybe 2 hours before departure.
Very hypothetical, but that looks like a ticket to me from the section bolded. Moreover,there is a clause in the Regulation that suggests that if it is a transferred reservation then the passenger is definitely covered by EC261 (article 1.2.b). However that has to be set against the fact that all paths lead back to United in terms of cause.
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Old Aug 6, 18, 5:25 am
  #1079  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Very hypothetical, but that looks like a ticket to me from the section bolded. Moreover,there is a clause in the Regulation that suggests that if it is a transferred reservation then the passenger is definitely covered by EC261 (article 1.2.b). However that has to be set against the fact that all paths lead back to United in terms of cause.
Yep - pax accept United were at fault from the offset. Let’s see what they offer as compensation, it may end up matching or at least coming close to what EC261 would have offered anyway.
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Old Aug 7, 18, 4:27 am
  #1080  
 
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Hi, I am new here! I had a Club Europe ticket for flight BA0397 (BRU-LHR) on the 19th July. The flight was originally shown as delayed by 30 min but after spending a few hours in the lounge it became clear that we were facing a long delay or even cancellation. Eventually, around 18:00 I received an update through the BA app showing that the flight was cancelled. The reason had to do with a technical issue in BRU air traffic control (not sure how this affects my rights). The staff at the airport were not aware of the cancellation at that point. The message I received advised to proceed to the ticketing office in departures in order to find a solution. BA have a third party handling ticketing in BRU (can't remember the name) who told me that they were waiting for instructions from BA so were unable to assist at that moment in time.

As I had to be back early on Friday in order to go on holiday, my instinct was to buy a ticket with Eurostar, which I did and made my way to Zuid station. As soon as I arrived, I received a text from BA informing me that I was put on BA0389 departing on Friday at 06:50 (Euro traveler - not club Europe which was not a big deal but not like-for-like). I rang them and told them that it was not a good option for me as I had to be back in the UK on Thursday night and asked for a refund. The BA member of staff agreed and advised to seek compensation for my out of pocket expense (Eurostar ticket) which I eventually did on the 24th July by opening a case with BA.

So far, I have received a refund for the BRU-LHR fare, however, the compensation case is still open. I need your advice on the following points:

-Should I involve a third party to manage the claim? I did some research online and apparently I would be eligible for compensation (other than the Eurostar ticket) based on my rights stipulated in EC261/2004.
-Are BA likely to pay for the Eurostar ticket, since it was my choice to purchase it and not accept the new flight option?
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