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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 3:15 am
  #916  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I must admit I would have preferred to see this sort of case go via MCOL rather than CEDR, because the latter process tends to take a fairly conservative approach and if there is a two-way argument of approximately equal weight they don't seem to take into account the Regulation's preamble which is all about protecting the passengers' interests..
I considered MCOL but felt that with my previous legal experience (practiced law for 15 years, with substantial trial experience,) and having the time and resources to do the technical and legal analysis, CEDR was the best option. It really isn't as close an issue as others make it out and your comment about the fleet make up was something that I incorporated into my reply to BA's defense statement. I appreciate your input.
They relied on section 38 of the van der Lans case plus the Wallentine case, both of which held in favor of the passenger, as the engine problems there were considered inherent in the operation of an airline. I'm sure if it was an airline that only had one type of aircraft, all with the same engines (ala WN in the US,) that might present another problem. But here, BA has 28 787's of which 3 were down as of last December (they didn't update the current maintenance status.) However, they have a total of 134 long-haul aircraft, including the 28 787's, that have the range for LAX-LHR. So while it's 10% of their 787 fleet, it's only 2% of their long-haul fleet.. Plus they waited until after the US FAA issued their April 26th directive (8 days after the cancellation notice and 4 days after my flight date,) further restricting ETOPS opps, to take steps to solve the fleet management issue, going to QR (which owns 20% of IAG, parent of BA, et al,) to wet-lease 3 A330's. Plus, as I mentioned previously, the particular aircraft, G-ZBJG a 787-800, originally assigned for this flight was shifted to the LHR-YUL-LHR route that day. It didn't go out of service until April 29 for 6 days at London. So, it's fleet management at that time. Plus they attached the summary of the op log, showing the reaon for cancellation as "OPEN." SO, they won't be able to satisfy their burdan of proof that this is extraordinary circumstances.
Thanks again.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 3:21 am
  #917  
 
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
You don't mention point 38 which is what the airline will rely on.

38 Nevertheless, certain technical problems may constitute extraordinary circumstances. That would be the case in the situation where it was revealed by the manufacturer of the aircraft comprising the fleet of the air carrier concerned, or by a competent authority, that those aircraft, although already in service, are affected by a hidden manufacturing defect which impinges on flight safety

That is why I would speak to someone like Bott & Co for advice.
Thanks, I would agree for some others, but I think I can manage it. Note 38 was discussion only, and 42 to 46, coming after that and forming the basis for the award to the passenger are more pursuasive. As well as being the support for the ruling, the holding of the court.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 3:56 am
  #918  
 
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Originally Posted by highexpectations View Post
My colleague was delayed on the above flight and is being told by BA she isnít due any compensation even though the total delay was over three hours. They seem to be splitting the delay up? Is this BA chancing their arm at not paying? I wondered if those who know more can shed more light on whether this particular flight is due compensation or not.

Thanks.


I have had BA tell me outright lies about flight delays being the result of strikes. Fortunately a co-worker was on the inbound plane that was late arriving. Once I let BA know that I was aware that the delay in his plane was due to a mechanical problem they relented and paid me what was due. If I hadn't known someone on the incoming flight I would have had a difficult time getting my compensation. My point is that BA will tell any story they can in order to avoid paying under EC261. Keep on it and don't give up.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 4:07 am
  #919  
 
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Thanks!

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Welcome to Flyertalk essjss, it's good to see you here and I hope that we will also see you in other parts of the BA forum too. I would say this is is a good one for CEDR if BA is relying on this cause of delay, for the reasons you have identified in your reply. The only reason it would not be BA's liability would be if the truck in question was not connected with BA at all, so it was operating for another airline AND not BA's own ground agent. When it gets to a paralegal I would expect the case to fold in your favour, unless they come up with a better outcome. Incidentally I think the delay at HAJ was also unacceptably long, BA could have done a number of things to reduce that delay too, I would mention that in the submission but claim on the basis of the PHX issue.

Depending on timings you may need a deadlock letter from BA but if they are not replying you can probably start CEDR anyway, it doesn't materially change the process, processing or outcome if you start now.
Thanks corporate wage slave. I appreciate the welcome and the advice to pursue this with CEDR. I sent another response this morning to reiterate my 2 reasons for claiming compensation and stated that I will pursue CEDR if they choose to not respond to the concerns with a thorough explanation. I will update the board with the results of the effort.

Funny thing about it is that BA was forced to pay 5x600EUR when we took this same flight last year (only after a stroke of luck in finding proof of why our inbound plane was late). I'm not sure its worth the potential trouble and pain to try the same route again when we make the trip next year.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 1:00 pm
  #920  
 
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Following the dlays on Wednesday, my flight was delayed a total of around 4 hours, with about 1 hour woing to the fire alarm in ATC and then around 3 hours due to the IT system failure affecting the load management

My flight was BA864, LHR-WAW. Can anyone share what expert flyer says was the reason for the delay and if the code suggest BA will pay EC261 or not?

I have a fear they will claim without the fire alarm we would not have been over 3 hours delayed.

At the end of the flight the captain apologised for the late arrival and that it was because of a BA IT failure.

no information about EC261 rights was provided on board, on arrival, nor in the email I received apologising for the chaos
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Old Jul 22, 18, 1:30 pm
  #921  
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet View Post
My flight was BA864, LHR-WAW. Can anyone share what expert flyer says was the reason for the delay and if the code suggest BA will pay EC261 or not?

I have a fear they will claim without the fire alarm we would not have been over 3 hours delayed.
Unfortunately it's no longer on EF, it's only there for 3 days approx.

And I think you are going to be correct about the total delay being partly extraordinary circumstances. EF does say the actual arrival was 00:13, so I guess doors open 00:20 instead of 20:10.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 3:45 pm
  #922  
 
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To file or not to file
Experienced a dreadful delay Friday on BA167 after having flown in from LAX in CW with a 6 hrs layover connecting to TLV with a scheduled departure of 1640.
Boarding for BA167 was delayed for about an hour only to the sit on the plane for three hours due to a valve that was stuck in an open position on the potable tank. Toilets were not to be used for the time of course. Maintenance was on top of it according to the Capt. as the plan was to exchange the valve with a new one from the maintenance warehouse 2 miles away. Considering it as Friday evening the journey to get the valve was a time consuming effort only to find out it didn’t quite fit. Capt kept us informed of all the steps and we were told maintenance would try to take one out of another 777 but had no idea how long this may take. So decision was made to get everyone off the plane with the request to stay close to the gate until they figure out what to do next. Staff handed out £5 vouchers to get drink or snack etc. unfortunately I’d spent mine on kinder eggs for the grand children. At approx. 2200 we were asked to get back on the plane and settle in again. Capt was happy to report that the plane was 100% serviceable and I was happy to get on the way when he added that unfortunately catering deemed the food not edible for consumption anymore and had offloaded the entire food catering. I know airplane food is not the best but I was so looking forward to the lamb dish but all I received was a bottle of water and a soda. I was too tired to get upset and was happy to finally get on the way. I was also impressed by the flow of information from the Captain throughout this delay but is the £5 vouchersufficient? Granted nobody yet knew that the would be offloaded.
Should or can I file for compensation?
The wiki stated something about flights to and from Israel are not eligible for compensation due to delays?
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Old Jul 22, 18, 4:00 pm
  #923  
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No, Israel has its own compensation regulation but flying from the EU to Israel doesn't take away your EU rights.

So here is the dispatch informatiion:
DOBA167/20JUL
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA 167 -2 FR 20JUL18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

LHR ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2250
LEFT THE GATE 2250
TOOK OFF 2251
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 0556 TLV
TLV AIRCRAFT LANDED 0548
ARRIVED 0556
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA 167 -2 FR 20JUL18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
LHR 1645 FR JCDRIWETYBH/M 777 4:50
KMLVSNQOGX/M
TLV 2335 FR 4:50
COMMENTS-
1.LHR TLV - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
2.LHR TLV - DEPARTS TERMINAL 5
3.LHR TLV - ARRIVES TERMINAL 3
4.LHR TLV - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.LHR TLV - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
6.LHR TLV - CO2/PAX* 234.53 KG ECO, 469.06 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
777 J 48 W 24 M 203
>
The scheduled time of arrival was 23:35, actual time of arrival (chocs on) was 05:56, so well over 6 hours late. If this was on separate tickets, then it's 400€ fairly certainly. If you were on a single ticket then you are looking at 600€. The lack of food on board is dreadful at any level given they had plenty of time to rectify this, and very much part of the CW service offering. You should have asked the SCCM to put a note in the iPad, assuming you have a BAEC membership, since that can be the fastest way to get the allocated compensation for that.

Your options now are to fill in the form for EC261 and make a separate Customer Relations webform for the lack of catering. Alternatively try ringing up Customer Relations during the UK working day - they may be able to shortcut the process a bit.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 4:28 pm
  #924  
 
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Originally Posted by snapplefan View Post
... when he added that unfortunately catering deemed the food not edible for consumption anymore and had offloaded the entire food catering. I know airplane food is not the best but I was so looking forward to the lamb dish but all I received was a bottle of water and a soda.
I know, everyone is a critic of airplane food. Always try to eat at Galleries First before the flight as many of their selections are actually edible.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 4:36 pm
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Will do that first thing in the morning.
Thank you
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Old Jul 22, 18, 4:43 pm
  #926  
 
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Originally Posted by rbAA View Post
I know, everyone is a critic of airplane food. Always try to eat at Galleries First before the flight as many of their selections are actually edible.
sat in the lounge from around 1130-3pm and had a nice lunch then left for departure to TLV at C gates. Unfortunately no lounge at C gate. Instructions were to stay around departure gate so I stayed as instructed. I know that a few people took off and came back with beer and chips from somewhere.
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Old Jul 23, 18, 2:23 am
  #927  
 
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A bit O/T but a few of us were on the IB3166 MAD-LHR aboard the new (two day old!) A350, wherein none of the IFE was working. What's a ballpark Avios compensation for that sort of inconvenience?
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Old Jul 23, 18, 2:44 am
  #928  
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Originally Posted by armouredant View Post
A bit O/T but a few of us were on the IB3166 MAD-LHR aboard the new (two day old!) A350, wherein none of the IFE was working. What's a ballpark Avios compensation for that sort of inconvenience?
Shorthaul IFE on Iberia? Slightly less than 1 Avios, I would suspect.
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Old Jul 23, 18, 3:09 am
  #929  
 
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Originally Posted by armouredant View Post
A bit O/T but a few of us were on the IB3166 MAD-LHR aboard the new (two day old!) A350, wherein none of the IFE was working. What's a ballpark Avios compensation for that sort of inconvenience?
Not sure if it was a serious post? However nothing....airlines generally don't offer IFE on SH flights and even if fitted I think you will be out of luck.
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Old Jul 23, 18, 3:12 am
  #930  
 
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Originally Posted by armouredant View Post
A bit O/T but a few of us were on the IB3166 MAD-LHR aboard the new (two day old!) A350, wherein none of the IFE was working. What's a ballpark Avios compensation for that sort of inconvenience?
NOT RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC OF THIS FORUM!!!

Answer: ZILCH, NADA, ZERO, NOTHING, NITCHEVO...
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