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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 4:17 am
  #781  
 
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I realise I‘m being slightly lazy here by not looking back through the whole thread, but I‘m sure one of you experts knows this „off-pat“.

If BA cancels a flight on me (LHR-XXX) 8 hours before departure, and also before my connecting and preceeding MUC-LHR and only offers me alternatives that get me to my destination on the next day, 21 hours late, where exactly do I stand?

I arranged alternative travel and BA were happy to cancel and fully refund my whole booking, but this obviously had an increased cost for me. BA refused to book my suggested alternative for me even though it was on AA, a JB partner. My expectation is that taking matters into my own hands means I chose to take the costs of the higher fare to get there in time, but that BA should still be on the hook for €600 EU Comp. The cancellation was operational, I assume a 787 problem, but of course they are not telling me that yet. Is my reading correct?

Last edited by Tafflyer; Jun 20, 18 at 4:19 am Reason: typo
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Old Jun 20, 18, 4:24 am
  #782  
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Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post
If BA cancels a flight on me (LHR-XXX) 8 hours before departure, and also before my connecting and preceeding MUC-LHR and only offers me alternatives that get me to my destination on the next day, 21 hours late, where exactly do I stand?

I arranged alternative travel and BA were happy to cancel and fully refund my whole booking, but this obviously had an increased cost for me. BA refused to book my suggested alternative for me even though it was on AA, a JB partner. My expectation is that taking matters into my own hands means I chose to take the costs of the higher fare to get there in time, but that BA should still be on the hook for 600 EU Comp. The cancellation was operational, I assume a 787 problem, but of course they are not telling me that yet. Is my reading correct?
BA are currently claiming (mostly) that the main 787 cancellations are extraordinary circumstances and therefore not eligible for compensation. That is more than open to debate, but it is probably wise not to assume 100% that you are going to get Article 7 compensation, not least depending the the alternative arrangements. If you check the dispatch notes on Expertflyer you will get a more clues as to whether this is going to get compensation from the presence of a Y on the delay coding. For the rest - the rebooking - that would depend on various factors and details, and if a 001 ticket then I suspect AA would be OK to rebook. If 125 then BA are probably within their rights here, overall, but as ever the details may be relevant here.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 4:28 am
  #783  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
If you are on BA429 then that's only about 15 minutes late (though the timings don't align with your post, so I may have got this wrong, BA431 is more or less on time). But I'd endorse the advice to hotfoot to T3, and definitely airside too via the bus service to Flight Connections, and then to the Virgin desk, unless someone meets you off the AMS service with other options - which being VS is unlikely. Formally it's BA who is responsible for the missed departure, but that doesn't change the advice to go to VS in T3 first, they will refer you to BA (next desk along) if they are out of options.
Thanks very much all, yes BA429 which got clearance a couple of minutes after I posted. 30-40 minute departure delay, and landed with a 95 minute connection time so I should be fine, on the bus at T5b with 70 mins till my next flight.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 4:47 am
  #784  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
BA are currently claiming (mostly) that the main 787 cancellations are extraordinary circumstances and therefore not eligible for compensation. That is more than open to debate, but it is probably wise not to assume 100% that you are going to get Article 7 compensation, not least depending the the alternative arrangements. If you check the dispatch notes on Expertflyer you will get a more clues as to whether this is going to get compensation from the presence of a Y on the delay coding. For the rest - the rebooking - that would depend on various factors and details, and if a 001 ticket then I suspect AA would be OK to rebook. If 125 then BA are probably within their rights here, overall, but as ever the details may be relevant here.
I held a 125 ticket MUC-LHR-YXX-LHR-MUC, all on BA codes. I checked availability on MUC-PHL-YXX before calling BA and they could see J availability (I had an I class ticket). However, they refused based on policy after which I then requested the refund. I was fairly sure that I was being fobbed off but since the MUC-PHL was a couple of hours before the originally planned MUC-LHR I had no time to waste arguing my point with somebody on the phone. The replacement ticket was 001 plated MUC-PHL-YXX-LHR-MUC, all on AA codes, so I lost a few Avios too. The new ticket was about 600 more than the original, which seemed actually ok given the very short notice but I am still out of pocket. BA staff at MUC are all outsourced now, so I doubt going to the airport to try for the free reroute would have succeeded. BA was showing J1 only, AA was showing J3, D2, C2.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 11:39 am
  #785  
 
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With the upcoming wet-leases of various QR aircraft to cover various 787 BA flights, how does EC261 apply to those wet lease operated flights where they are non EU departures with EU arrivals? The outbound sector is covered by EC261 no matter what, but inbound, as BA is no longer the operator (it now being QR, which is not an EU airline), is that no longer covered?

Thanks!
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Old Jun 20, 18, 12:01 pm
  #786  
 
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Originally Posted by rjn21 View Post
With the upcoming wet-leases of various QR aircraft to cover various 787 BA flights, how does EC261 apply to those wet lease operated flights where they are non EU departures with EU arrivals? The outbound sector is covered by EC261 no matter what, but inbound, as BA is no longer the operator (it now being QR, which is not an EU airline), is that no longer covered?...
Btw Recital 7

7) In order to ensure the effective application of this Regulation, the obligations that it creates should rest with the operating air carrier who performs or intends to perform a flight, whether with owned aircraft, under dry or wet lease, or on any other basis.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 12:44 pm
  #787  
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Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post
The new ticket was about 600 more than the original, which seemed actually ok given the very short notice but I am still out of pocket. BA staff at MUC are all outsourced now, so I doubt going to the airport to try for the free reroute would have succeeded. BA was showing J1 only, AA was showing J3, D2, C2.
You could try claiming the extra costs off BA, I'm not entirely sure that a reroute is out of policy, unless YXX is a non JB route (if it's LAX then it's more mysterious). I take the point about not wasting time on this, but if the best BA could do is the next day there is an argument - not a strong one - that they should use other airlines. I suspect it would probably have to go CEDR or MCOL however. Having said that I know MUC airport staff are rerouting people directly, so that may have been another option (accepting the MUC service left earlier), the more usual option would have been to route you to LHR and then BA put you on JB or VS as necessary.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 12:45 pm
  #788  
 
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Could someone please offer advice on the reason for the cancellation of BA2772 LGW-JER on Friday 15 June? It was due to be operated by Eastern. I believe there were due to be French ATC strikes over the weekend but not on the Friday. We were rebooked on BA2768 and are looking to submit a compensation claim. Many thanks.

.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 12:58 pm
  #789  
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Originally Posted by LSunbury View Post
Could someone please offer advice on the reason for the cancellation of BA2772 LGW-JER on Friday 15 June? It was due to be operated by Eastern. I believe there were due to be French ATC strikes over the weekend but not on the Friday. We were rebooked on BA2768 and are looking to submit a compensation claim. Many thanks..
Unfortunately the dispatch information is only held for about 2 days so I'm not now able to find out. If you are in a situation where this is useful it's best to ask straightaway. The two other points I can make are
- it's up to BA to prove this case if you take it to (eg) CEDR, it's not your job to disprove it.
- there is also this very similar thread here
JER French ATC Strikes
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Old Jun 20, 18, 1:19 pm
  #790  
 
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OK thanks - another bit of knowledge accumulated! We had a busy weekend so didn't think about this until today. We will submit a claim anyway and see how it goes.

Appreciate your help as always c-w-s..
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Old Jun 20, 18, 1:36 pm
  #791  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
You could try claiming the extra costs off BA, I'm not entirely sure that a reroute is out of policy, unless YXX is a non JB route (if it's LAX then it's more mysterious). I take the point about not wasting time on this, but if the best BA could do is the next day there is an argument - not a strong one - that they should use other airlines. I suspect it would probably have to go CEDR or MCOL however. Having said that I know MUC airport staff are rerouting people directly, so that may have been another option (accepting the MUC service left earlier), the more usual option would have been to route you to LHR and then BA put you on JB or VS as necessary.
Yes, I did think of just rocking up at MUC airport, travelling to LHR and putting myself at BAs mercy, however the Gold line had already told me there was no availability and while there may well have been options I had a 600 option to ensure I got there the same day.

I will request the EU comp and see what happens. There are obvious 787 issues but just as BA preemptively cancels flights when poor weather is forecast, known reliability issues with airframes can also be planned for to some degree and I do not accept that such short notice cancellations can be claimed as exceptional. The fact that this happens so regularly and that the 78x schedule is now being thinned out supports that.

Thanks for the help, Ill keep you posted.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 2:49 pm
  #792  
 
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My EU claim was denied today by BA after waiting 6+ weeks to hear back.

I was flying BA shorthaul KEF-LHR, with a 2hr connection (T5 to T3) onto an AA flight. My BA flight landed into LHR 40 minutes early, but we were forced to wait for our T5 gate for 30 minutes. There were numerous open gates nearby, but the Captain said he was unable to convince operations to let us use one of them. Once our gate was available, there was a baggage cart in the way and the Captain had to make five calls to ramp operations to have the cart moved (another 20+ minute wait). Upon finally parking, the jetbridge was discovered to be broken and it took BA another 60 minutes to get stairs delivered to the aircraft. All told, despite the 40 minute early landing we ended up deplaning 80 minutes after scheduled arrival. Flight connections would not even let me to attempt to make my connection to T3, so I had to overnight in LHR (BA provided accommodation) and ultimately reached my destination 18hrs late. To add insult to injury, I had purchased a Club Europe upgrade at KEF, there was absolutely no meal catered for me and we ended up deplaning last from the rear door (likely being the final factor preventing me from making my connection).

I outlined all of these issues (except the Club Europe catering) when I submitted the claim. BA denied the EU claim, citing, it "was due to a problem with the stand allocation" and thus BA was "not liable for a compensation payment in this case." Does this seem correct to you? While we did wait 30 minutes for a gate this is not what ultimately caused the misconnect. There were a number of factors directly within BA's control that ultimately had a much great impact in deplaning late. Is there any mechanism to appeal within BA?

-FlyerBeek
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Old Jun 20, 18, 3:04 pm
  #793  
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Originally Posted by FlyerBeek View Post
My EU claim was denied today by BA after waiting 6+ weeks to hear back.

I was flying BA shorthaul KEF-LHR, with a 2hr connection (T5 to T3) onto an AA flight. My BA flight landed into LHR 40 minutes early, but we were forced to wait for our T5 gate for 30 minutes. There were numerous open gates nearby, but the Captain said he was unable to convince operations to let us use one of them. Once our gate was available, there was a baggage cart in the way and the Captain had to make five calls to ramp operations to have the cart moved (another 20+ minute wait). Upon finally parking, the jetbridge was discovered to be broken and it took BA another 60 minutes to get stairs delivered to the aircraft. All told, despite the 40 minute early landing we ended up deplaning 80 minutes after scheduled arrival. Flight connections would not even let me to attempt to make my connection to T3, so I had to overnight in LHR (BA provided accommodation) and ultimately reached my destination 18hrs late. To add insult to injury, I had purchased a Club Europe upgrade at KEF, there was absolutely no meal catered for me and we ended up deplaning last from the rear door (likely being the final factor preventing me from making my connection).

I outlined all of these issues (except the Club Europe catering) when I submitted the claim. BA denied the EU claim, citing, it "was due to a problem with the stand allocation" and thus BA was "not liable for a compensation payment in this case." Does this seem correct to you? While we did wait 30 minutes for a gate this is not what ultimately caused the misconnect. There were a number of factors directly within BA's control that ultimately had a much great impact in deplaning late. Is there any mechanism to appeal within BA?

-FlyerBeek
not to let facts get in the way of a good story from BA, but BA actually allocate their own stands at T5 and the baggage handling (noting the baggage bin delay) is also all done by BA staff.
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Old Jun 20, 18, 3:12 pm
  #794  
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Originally Posted by FlyerBeek View Post
...

I outlined all of these issues (except the Club Europe catering) when I submitted the claim. BA denied the EU claim, citing, it "was due to a problem with the stand allocation" and thus BA was "not liable for a compensation payment in this case." Does this seem correct to you? ...
Appears to be a standard fob off (if not an outright lie) in the hope you will go away.

It's hardly 'exceptional circumstances'; I'd be pursuing this. Do you have an available UK address?
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Old Jun 20, 18, 3:18 pm
  #795  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
not to let facts get in the way of a good story from BA, but BA actually allocate their own stands at T5 and the baggage handling (noting the baggage bin delay) is also all done by BA staff.
Yes, this isn't extraordinary circumstances, and even if it was, clearly there was more BA could have done to have prevented your irrop. So I think you have a decent claim if you are prepared to pursue it, though it may need you to start the CEDR or MCOL process. See the steps at the start of this thread.

When you say Flight Connections, I presume this was before getting on the bus (the AA agents there)? If so, and in the unlikely event this happens again, it's best to ignore all the staff shouting and go straight to the T3 gate.
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