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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: serfty
Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 1:53 pm
  #346  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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BA have twice refused to compensate for my delayed flight because they reckon it was due to adverse weather.

What happened was that the cargo door would not close/lock on the aircraft, which had over-nighted, due to what they claim was very cold temperatures (-5). Engineers were called to try to heat the mechanism to free it up.

This was unsuccessful, so we were eventually taken back into T5 and after a while,onto another aircraft. The result was a 3 hour plus delay to arrival.

I have told them that I believe that the delay was caused by a technical fault since Airbus aircraft are certified to operate in much colder temperatures without issue and also that surely more of their aircraft would have been suffering with the same characteristics, which I'm not aware of.

What do you guys think? Should I leave it there, or persue this further?
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Old Mar 20, 18, 2:12 pm
  #347  
 
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Originally Posted by w3andw4d View Post

What do you guys think?
Some FT'ers may get offended ...
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Old Mar 20, 18, 2:31 pm
  #348  
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Originally Posted by w3andw4d View Post
What happened was that the cargo door would not close/lock on the aircraft, which had over-nighted, due to what they claim was very cold temperatures (-5). Engineers were called to try to heat the mechanism to free it up.
Minus 5 celsius doesn't strike me as that cold, and some airports even in Europe would struggle to get above that temperature on a typical winter's day. On the other hand it's the first time I've heard that specific excuse before. I guess the other factor is whether BA could reasonably have got you swapped at their home base faster than a 3 hour plus delay implied, or indeed sorted out the door. It sounds like BA aren't prepared to budge internally on this one, so it's more of a question whether you are prepared to take this to CEDR or MCOL? I'm not sure which would be best, but CEDR is more user-friendly than the court system.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 2:57 pm
  #349  
 
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Originally Posted by deboyzoned View Post
Some FT'ers may get offended ...
Sorry!
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Old Mar 20, 18, 3:08 pm
  #350  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Minus 5 celsius doesn't strike me as that cold, and some airports even in Europe would struggle to get above that temperature on a typical winter's day. On the other hand it's the first time I've heard that specific excuse before. I guess the other factor is whether BA could reasonably have got you swapped at their home base faster than a 3 hour plus delay implied, or indeed sorted out the door. It sounds like BA aren't prepared to budge internally on this one, so it's more of a question whether you are prepared to take this to CEDR or MCOL? I'm not sure which would be best, but CEDR is more user-friendly than the court system.
Thanks C-W-S. It seems clear-cut to me and I will consider the options you mention.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 3:09 pm
  #351  
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Originally Posted by w3andw4d View Post
Sorry!
I wouldn't worry too much, many people, including my sister, use the term in a non gender specific manner.

As for your issue, I agree with CWS, but I suspect MCOL may be needed.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 5:16 pm
  #352  
 
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Flight cancelled- rerouting leaving/arriving 5h EARLIEr


Hello,
I have just been informed that the my flight tomorrow has been cancelled. BA has offered a flight that leaves CDG five hours EARLIER, arriving LHR five hours EARLIER than the scheduled flight.
Is there any ground for compensation?
Thank you.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 5:26 pm
  #353  
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Originally Posted by majunga View Post

Hello,
I have just been informed that the my flight tomorrow has been cancelled. BA has offered a flight that leaves CDG five hours EARLIER, arriving LHR five hours EARLIER than the scheduled flight.
Is there any ground for compensation?
Thank you.
Depends what the reason is. However, if it's because of this France - ATC strike 21 - 23 March 2018, MAD/BCN also affected then no you won't get compensation, but duty of care still applies.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 5:41 pm
  #354  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Depends what the reason is. However, if it's because of this France - ATC strike 21 - 23 March 2018, MAD/BCN also affected then no you won't get compensation, but duty of care still applies.
thank you Karfa.
Interesting, the French news/site are only reporting a strike starting on the 22nd.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 5:49 pm
  #355  
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Originally Posted by majunga View Post
I have just been informed that the my flight tomorrow has been cancelled. BA has offered a flight that leaves CDG five hours EARLIER, arriving LHR five hours EARLIER than the scheduled flight.
The automated rebooking process is perhaps better than nothing but it takes no account of your personal circumstances. It's quite OK to ring up and rebook to another time - or if you are lucky, persuade BA.com to rebook. You can also have a full refund if that's a better option, or shift to another service (e.g. Orly to LCY for example).
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Old Mar 21, 18, 11:00 am
  #356  
 
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Mixed Fleet strike - cancellation

Originally Posted by Temych View Post
An update on my claim.
I received the defence details from the BA legal team. They don't give any details on why they consider the Mixed Fleet strike a) outside their control and b) not inherent in the normal operation of an airline.
Further update on my MCOL claim.
Now BA have sent a DQ
a) refusing mediation service
b) Uxbridge County court as their preference

What are the chances the hearing taking place in Uxbridge?
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Old Mar 21, 18, 11:07 am
  #357  
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Originally Posted by Temych View Post
What are the chances the hearing taking place in Uxbridge?
High I would say. You may get offered an out of court settlement just before the hearing, but otherwise you will have to assume that you will have your day in court.
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Old Mar 22, 18, 4:24 am
  #358  
 
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Question that would appreciate advice on before opening a CEDR dispute. The flight details were:
  • Route: LHR-LPA
  • Date: 02 March 2018
  • Expected Dep: 10:20
  • Actual Dep: 15:36
  • Expected Arrival: 14:45
  • Actual Arrival: 20:22
The gate was called by 10:00am and the plane was on the tarmac but was repeatedly delayed until a crew was scheduled. The delay was not due to weather over this period but was due to crewing issues.

The response I received initially and in follow up from BA denying the claim:
“We've reviewed your claim and I'm afraid your claim has been refused. This is because your flight was delayed due to a crew shortage and adverse weather, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.”

I think BA is incorrect in refusing this claim as I am pretty sure this is a feeble denial to compensation as BA crew rostering was within its control to better manage the delays. Would this be a correct interpretation?

Last edited by heggers03; Mar 22, 18 at 4:36 am
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Old Mar 22, 18, 10:03 am
  #359  
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Originally Posted by heggers03 View Post
I think BA is incorrect in refusing this claim as I am pretty sure this is a feeble denial to compensation as BA crew rostering was within its control to better manage the delays. Would this be a correct interpretation?
This was in the middle of #Beast 1.0 so there certainly was bad weather around at the time. There is a general and fairly broad exemption for bad weather in the Regulation and I doubt BA would be paying much EC261 Article 7 compensation on that particular day. Your argument is presumably that the weather had little or nothing to do with your delay and in that respect you will need to convince CEDR rather than anyone else. In the case of MCOL the emphasis is the other way around, it would be up to BA to prove the delay was caused by "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned", or alternatively extraordinary circumstance. It's the sort of thing where all you can do is play out your arguments and let the adjudicator or judge decide.
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Old Mar 22, 18, 10:16 am
  #360  
 
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Originally Posted by heggers03 View Post
Question that would appreciate advice on before opening a CEDR dispute. The flight details were:
  • Route: LHR-LPA
  • Date: 02 March 2018
  • Expected Dep: 10:20
  • Actual Dep: 15:36
  • Expected Arrival: 14:45
  • Actual Arrival: 20:22
The gate was called by 10:00am and the plane was on the tarmac but was repeatedly delayed until a crew was scheduled. The delay was not due to weather over this period but was due to crewing issues.

The response I received initially and in follow up from BA denying the claim:
“We've reviewed your claim and I'm afraid your claim has been refused. This is because your flight was delayed due to a crew shortage and adverse weather, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.”

I think BA is incorrect in refusing this claim as I am pretty sure this is a feeble denial to compensation as BA crew rostering was within its control to better manage the delays. Would this be a correct interpretation?
I would have thought BA rather weakens their argument using crew shortage just after the bought the Monarch slots. It could be argued it was irresponsible of them to buy the slots when they knew they had insufficient crew to operate. However no doubt the superior knowledge of Tobius-uk and c-w-s will be able to provide some clarity.
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