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-   -   The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1885572-2018-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html)

stifle Jan 1, 18 11:25 am

Where did we end up on the BA position that downgrading the "free" person on an Amex 2 for 1 redemption didn't get any refund because the ticket was free?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 1, 18 11:50 am


Originally Posted by stifle (Post 29236525)
Where did we end up on the BA position that downgrading the "free" person on an Amex 2 for 1 redemption didn't get any refund because the ticket was free?

There are some cases going through at the moment. CEDR made at least one ruling in favour of BA's position (but strangely awarded some compensation to the claimant for other problems with the trip). In at least previous one case BA simply offered to replace the Amex Voucher before proceedings advanced too far. In another case, where Amex were cited in a Letter Before Action, Amex paid an undisclosed sum to halt proceedings before MCOL was moved. In one case I know it got to the mediation telephone call and the BA lawyer or paralegal conceded very soon into the call when the facilitator asked for clarification on points in the claimant's submission. I am not aware of any properly constructed case getting to a hearing. I am also unaware of any MCOL submission jointly naming both BA and Amex, let alone the outcome. Having said that, it is disappointing if understandable that some of those I've assisted in this area have slipped into anonymity as proceedings progressed.

Stewie Mac Jan 2, 18 7:51 am

how to go about following up a claim?
 

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 29235711)
28) How long should I wait before hearing a reply from BA?
There are reliable reports of flyers getting compensation within a week of making contact. However it may take upto 6 weeks to get a substantial reply from customer services. However if you don't get an auto-acknowledgement within 24 hours to your email address, the you should follow up immediately. Though one part of the regulations require delays and cancellation compensation to be paid within 7 days, the reality is often very different and the CAA have advised us that they don't regard the Regulations as having a time limit. However bear in mind that if this is going to end up in court there may be time limits involved (6 years in England and Wales), so you should not let matters drift.

I filled in the form for compensation and some duty-of-care reimbursement a couple of weeks ago, but never saw an auto-ackowledgement (it may have gone into the junk folder which clears weekly so I can't check).

How do I go about 'following up' on this? I imagine that BA are working through a huge pile of claims (this was just after slush-maggedon but unrelated) so don't want to chase unless it's needed/helpful.

Thanks

tinkicker Jan 2, 18 8:23 am


Originally Posted by Tyzap (Post 29236213)
  • Hidden manufacturing defects (a manufacturer recall that grounds a fleet of aircraft)
.

It is possible that this might count as a "hidden manufacturing defect". It's probably the strongest of those arguments, though it has not lead to a "recall that grounds a fleet" more an unexpectedly high rate of wear.

It's certainly the case that airlines would be seeking compensation from the manufacturer for the costs of rectifying the defects and possibly (probably) the consequential costs. Perhaps the passengers claim against the airline , the airline claims against the manufacturer and EC261 sets the amounts.

corporate-wage-slave Jan 2, 18 8:29 am


Originally Posted by Stewie Mac (Post 29239561)
I filled in the form for compensation and some duty-of-care reimbursement a couple of weeks ago, but never saw an auto-ackowledgement (it may have gone into the junk folder which clears weekly so I can't check).

How do I go about 'following up' on this? I imagine that BA are working through a huge pile of claims (this was just after slush-maggedon but unrelated) so don't want to chase unless it's needed/helpful.

Of course the problem is that you aren't sure whether or not it got logged or not: if there was an IT snafu at the time you sent the webform then you could be waiting forever (and still not get the expenses repaid). So after a couple of weeks I think it's OK just to call and see if it can be sorted out over the telephone. Alternatively a DM to Twitter. I imagine they are once again busy due to the bad days in December. I think your status isn't too high these days: I know Gold cardholders are getting their reimbursements inside a week and Silver within 10 days or so.

It's also good to save or print the screen before sending the webforms in (I use Google Drive which saves a PDF via the print function) since you may not get any other record.

SFGuy37 Jan 2, 18 8:47 am

BA287 Dec 31st LHR-SFO delayed 4hrs and 1 min.

Sorry if this is already covered, but my spouse and I travelled on the above flight using the Chase/BA Visa 2-4-1 voucher and Avios. 305pm departing flight was delayed after original 777 went tech before takeoff (about 1 hr after leaving gate). Returned to remote stand and all passengers deplaned to return to termina. Captain initially quoted a light coming on front landing gear due to tow that had to be inspected, then subsequently cited one generator not working and not sufficient fuel. New 777 Equipment assigned and departed 745pm. I see this as standard technical issue and not extraordinary circumstances.

We have submitted 2 x individual claims to BA citing the 4 hr+ delay (4hr and 1 minute delayed arrival time quoted per BA.com's flight status) - I understand Avios redemptions are covered under the EU ruling, but has anyone ever succefully received compensation when using a Chase 2-4-1 voucher?

Thanks!

corporate-wage-slave Jan 2, 18 8:52 am


Originally Posted by SFGuy37 (Post 29239781)
We have submitted 2 x individual claims to BA citing the 4 hr+ delay (4hr and 1 minute delayed arrival time quoted per BA.com's flight status) - I understand Avios redemptions are covered under the EU ruling, but has anyone ever succefully received compensation when using a Chase 2-4-1 voucher?

Yes I know this should be OK, you are after Article 7 compensation and paying via Chase and/or Avios makes no difference here. Complexities in this area revolve around downgrades and rebookings, but not delays or cancellations. The only complication I see is if (e.g.) BA says that ATC was responsible for (e.g.) 10 minutes of the delay, in which case you would get the half rate.

Tyzap Jan 2, 18 10:57 am


Originally Posted by tinkicker (Post 29239682)
It is possible that this might count as a "hidden manufacturing defect". It's probably the strongest of those arguments, though it has not lead to a "recall that grounds a fleet" more an unexpectedly high rate of wear.

It's certainly the case that airlines would be seeking compensation from the manufacturer for the costs of rectifying the defects and possibly (probably) the consequential costs. Perhaps the passengers claim against the airline , the airline claims against the manufacturer and EC261 sets the amounts.

Hi tinkicker,

If BA had wanted to claim that the problem was a hidden manufacturing defect they could have done so, I don't think there is any need to convolute the wording as you suggest. I suspect that they didn't because it doesn't correspond with the accepted definition of a HMD and would lead to an unreliable defence argument.

There is provision within the regs for the airline to claim from a 3rd party. You would expect that this would take the financial pressure off the airline to deny claims, but that doesn't seem to be the case, even tho it could be claimed that BA were not directly responsible.

stifle Jan 2, 18 2:51 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 29236601)
I am not aware of any properly constructed case getting to a hearing. I am also unaware of any MCOL submission jointly naming both BA and Amex, let alone the outcome.

Can you even name multiple respondents on an MCOL? I know you can't name multiple claimants.

corporate-wage-slave Jan 2, 18 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by stifle (Post 29241430)
Can you even name multiple respondents on an MCOL? I know you can't name multiple claimants.

Yes, with MCOL you can claim against one organisation, or two organisations or one person or two people.

MrPrice16 Jan 3, 18 12:22 pm

Evening All,
Just heard back from BA re my claim for the disruption caused by snow on 10th December.

They have agreed to pay my expenses for additional night hotel and food. But they have refused to refund the cost of the flight that they cancelled. I didn’t get rebooked on another service, I made my own way back.

Surely I should be entitled to a refund of the fare that they cancelled?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 3, 18 12:27 pm


Originally Posted by MrPrice16 (Post 29245505)
They have agreed to pay my expenses for additional night hotel and food. But they have refused to refund the cost of the flight that they cancelled. I didn’t get rebooked on another service, I made my own way back.

That's a bit odd. The only reason I can think of for denying this refund (assuming it was cancelled by BA) is if you somehow charged replacement travel (e.g. a train ticket) in with your other expenses. This isn't even controversial, or even part of EC261 really, it's in the airline's own conditions of carriage! Unless there is a key fact omitted here, you should ring customer relations (mid afternoon UK time) and talk it through with them. The possible other reason is if you selected the refund option within MMB, in which case there is a separate refund mechanism that will kick in, and what they are doing here is not allowing a double refund.

MrPrice16 Jan 3, 18 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 29245535)
That's a bit odd. The only reason I can think of for denying this refund (assuming it was cancelled by BA) is if you somehow charged replacement travel (e.g. a train ticket) in with your other expenses. This isn't even controversial, or even part of EC261 really, it's in the airline's own conditions of carriage! Unless there is a key fact omitted here, you should ring customer relations (mid afternoon UK time) and talk it through with them. The possible other reason is if you selected the refund option within MMB, in which case there is a separate refund mechanism that will kick in, and what they are doing here is not allowing a double refund.

Thanks CWS. The return flights were booked as part of BA holidays so not sure if that’s making it more complicated.

They did cite EU261 as the reason they rejected the claim. Perhaps they thought I wanted compensation rather than the refund.

Will call them tommorow

Andrea3108 Jan 3, 18 2:55 pm

3rd Party Damage to Plane - extraordinary circumstances?
 
Hi :-)

Bit of a shambolic attempt to return to LHR from NCL on 19th Dec with my first flight (BA1335 @ 17:10) being cancelled due to the fog in the morning and the rebooked flight (BA1337 @ 19:30) cancelled due to technical reasons. I've now discovered that this was due to the someone on the ground staff crew at NCL driving into the plane whilst it was on the stand. Customer relations are saying that this isn't eligible for compensation and I just wanted to check.

Ended up driving all the way home overnight. Apparently a refund of the ticket is en route somewhere in the banking system but overall a very disappointing response from BA at every stage of this verrrry long and sorry tale :-(

Tyzap Jan 3, 18 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by Andrea3108 (Post 29246215)
Hi :-)

Bit of a shambolic attempt to return to LHR from NCL on 19th Dec with my first flight (BA1335 @ 17:10) being cancelled due to the fog in the morning and the rebooked flight (BA1337 @ 19:30) cancelled due to technical reasons. I've now discovered that this was due to the someone on the ground staff crew at NCL driving into the plane whilst it was on the stand. Customer relations are saying that this isn't eligible for compensation and I just wanted to check.

Ended up driving all the way home overnight. Apparently a refund of the ticket is en route somewhere in the banking system but overall a very disappointing response from BA at every stage of this verrrry long and sorry tale :-(

Hi,

The following is extracted from the 'better enforcement' document. (link below)

c. Collision of mobile boarding stairs with an aircraft

The Court51 has clarified that the collision of mobile boarding stairs with an aircraft cannot be considered as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from payment of compensation under Article 5(3) of the Regulation. Mobile stairs or gangways can be regarded as indispensable to air passenger transport, and therefore air carriers are regularly faced with situations arising from the use of such equipment. A collision between an aircraft and a set of mobile boarding stairs is, hence, an event inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier. Extraordinary circumstances would apply, for example, when damage to the aircraft is due to an act external to the airport’s normal services, such as an act of terrorism or sabotage.

and

Any new right to compensation according to Article 7 will apply to the re-routed flight accepted under Article 8(1)(b) or (c) if it is also cancelled or delayed at arrival (see Section 4.4.11). The Commission recommends that options are clearly spelled out to passengers when assistance is to be provided.

Which can be found here...

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...%293502_en.pdf


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