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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
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Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Nov 29, 2018, 1:15 pm
  #1651  
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Originally Posted by wcel
The flight was not cancelled last minute because either airport was shut, other airlines managed to fly in and out of respective airports around the time that BA1305 would have taken off/landed. I can only fathom they cancelled this service to better accommodate another service/route and I don't think this would be an extraordinary circumstance?

I will be looking to put an EU261 claim in unless I receive firm advice from the trusted community of FT that this would 100% be a wasted effort? I realise they would likely initially refuse any claim but I feel I should be due compensation as the delay in now arriving at my international destination will be 24 hrs or thereabouts and I have suffered financial loss because of
As I understand it there have been some ATC restrictions at Heathrow today due to the high winds. This would affect all airlines who would have to make cancellations, but BA is hit harder in absolute terms because of the size of its operation at LHR.

Weather/ATC restrictions are most certainly both classified as Extraordinary Circumstances. I would have to say you are fighting a losing battle here. You are, of course, still entitled to Duty of Care.
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 1:18 pm
  #1652  
 
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Originally Posted by wcel

Appreciate any feedback
If due to weather the capacity at Heathrow was reduced you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid. Don't waste your time.

The only thing here is if you go to CEDR the burden of proof is with the airline, however from what you say I imagine they will be able to produce evidence that capacity at LHR was reduced and your flight was a casualty.
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 1:19 pm
  #1653  
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it is likely that this is a proactive cancellation based in ATC reducing the landing slots at LHR because of weather. In which case EU261 does not apply.

Just because other airlines are operating flights from both airports is not really relevant. If BA (and other LHR airlines) have been told to cancel X number of flights then it makes a choice which to cancel but that does not mean EU261 applies.

There is (or at least used to be) a list of such proactive cancellations on the CAA website
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 1:29 pm
  #1654  
 
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear
There is (or at least used to be) a list of such proactive cancellations on the CAA website
There still is, but there's no mention/update on it to include todays cancellations at Heathrow

I had a feeling I was on a hiding to nothing but thought it best to check with the experts first, so thanks guys and gals for the advice so far

I totally understand if Heathrow imposed the restriction on them (and I wouldn't be entitled to EU261) but have no way of knowing if that is actually what happened
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 2:28 pm
  #1655  
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Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
....Weather/ATC restrictions are most certainly both classified as Extraordinary Circumstances.....
Are you 100% sure about that?

Last edited by FlyerTalker39574; Nov 29, 2018 at 2:50 pm
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 4:28 pm
  #1656  
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Originally Posted by richardwft


Are you 100% sure about that?
Yes, categorically in the circumstances described by the OP, and almost certainly all others.
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Old Nov 29, 2018, 4:43 pm
  #1657  
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The weather today has been pretty vile, 12 flights were cancelled out of LHR and almost every short haul service has arrived into LHR 30 plus minutes late.

There may be some nuances about weather and EC261, particularly since "extraordinary circumstances" on its own is not the end of the matter, however anything weather related today is going nowhere.

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Old Nov 30, 2018, 12:20 am
  #1658  
 
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Originally Posted by baileysserpant

so if you lose are they going to come after you for the costs?!! My firm wouldnt but this is Cruz BA

There's a tiny chance. My case highlights several failings. To summarise;

My long haul flight was cancelled on the 787 2-3 days before departure at the end of August.

1) BA cite unexpected safety shortcomings. Yet cite the airworthiness directive from rolls Royce in their defence that 90% of inspected engines would fail inspection. Two engines 1/10 chance of pass squared is 1 in 100 chance of both engines passing. Hardly unexpected.

2) the compliance time of the AD was set at a fixed number of cycles, therefore fairly easy to forecast when the above inspection was likely due and could therefore be planned for .
3) there was an appeal case Jonas munius and ors v Jet2 that sought to define hidden manufacturing defect. Two of the criteria were not met in this instance. Essentially how long can an airline claim something is hidden as HMD can't be used as an indefinite black box response. In this case four and a half months lapsed since the AD so unlikely to be hidden. It also found that it had to immediately impinge on flight safety, as there was a complaince time of flight cycles, BA would have to prove it was removed from service on the cusp of the AD compliance time otherwise the aircraft is deemed safe to fly.

4) back to post 1252 or thereabouts, CEDR found the response to be lacking in terms of cover for flights and their preparedness for cancellation. BA arguing that wet leasing is hard during the summer months due to demand but I counter with the fact that they've wet leased only one plane during the whole 787 fiasco.

I have a few more minor points to argue. I fully appreciate safety is the most important, but I do draw the line at being notified 2-3 days prior to departure when it was near certainty that the aircraft would fail inspections and could therefore be planned. Given my case has a asis based on various failings it's not a vindictive or retributory case.

I'd urge others to use my line of reasoning because BA use extraordinary circumstances as this black box excuse. Remember BA will be seeking compensation from RR so all you're doing in getting what you're entitled to.
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Old Nov 30, 2018, 12:35 am
  #1659  
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Normally this is because there is predicted reduced capacity at LHR due to weather, so airlines are asked to cancel some flights. They will of course choose the short-haul / domestic flights first. No help to you when your flight is one of those affected.

I'm sure somebody will be along with a list of cancelled flights. If yours was the only one, then you may have a case

Edit - Just noticed c-w-s comment right above yours.

Edit 2 - Just noticed the full chain of emails above... Not sure why these didn't show when I clicked the "Next unread" button.

Edit 3 - I give in... God knows what I'm doing. I'm off for a nice brunch.
​​​​​

Last edited by DYKWIA; Nov 30, 2018 at 12:41 am
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Old Nov 30, 2018, 12:51 am
  #1660  
 
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Originally Posted by seagull88
I have a few more minor points to argue. I fully appreciate safety is the most important, but I do draw the line at being notified 2-3 days prior to departure when it was near certainty that the aircraft would fail inspections and could therefore be planned. Given my case has a asis based on various failings it's not a vindictive or retributory case.

I'd urge others to use my line of reasoning because BA use extraordinary circumstances as this black box excuse. Remember BA will be seeking compensation from RR so all you're doing in getting what you're entitled to.
Indeed, particularly as CEDR has already found in travellers favour on the 787 engine cases.

Having known about the issues since October 2017 the choice for BA was to lease planes in, or alternatively reduce schedules well in advance to reflect the equipment available and allow passengers to book alternative transport. Cancelling 2-3 days before hand and then claiming exceptional circumstances is frankly nonsense although it's possible someone will be on a bonus for hitting their 'avoided compensation' target. In fact you might argue that it is exactly the type of let down that EC261 is designed to avoid.
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Old Nov 30, 2018, 1:46 am
  #1661  
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Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
Yes, categorically in the circumstances described by the OP, and almost certainly all others.
Thank you for the clarification and your latter sweeping comment.
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Old Nov 30, 2018, 3:25 am
  #1662  
 
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Can anyone tell me what the additional distance flying a ETOPS 60 compliant route from LHR to MSY Vs no restrictions route is? I did some quick calculations and kept evaluating at less than 200 miles.
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Old Dec 1, 2018, 5:11 am
  #1663  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Thanks for the detailed reply back, and if nothing else, I'm sure it will help me and others with other similar cases.

I wouldn't say it's foolish, indeed it's rare to see totally hopeless cases in this thread. I think you have shown from the accumulated posts that you are aware of the main issues here. I would say it's a shade of grey case, not the strongest example in this thread, since you only just went over the 3 hours; but like you I struggle with the logic that the 20 minutes ATC delay is exceptional. Also, whether that 9 minutes over 3 hours relates to the doors open time or not. But what is probably your strongest argument is that if it got to court, it would be done to BA to prove that the excess time was indeed extraordinary, rather than you to prove otherwise, without avoiding the naivety of that position. Also I definitely would not take this to CEDR given the recent reply, I suspect CEDR would go along with this.
I thought i would update you with the current situation, this may take a very long time! I had actually forgot about my case until i received this email

"We're writing to let you know that we have now received the airline's formal defence and we are currently considering the next steps in order to secure the best possible outcome for you.

In the meantime we are waiting for 'Directions' from the Court which is effectively a timetable of events that both Redacted and the airline must adhere to in order to progress your claim to a formal court hearing.

Unfortunately this stage is the lengthiest part of the process and can take up to six months if the airline continues to argue that they are not liable to pay you compensation."
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Old Dec 1, 2018, 7:49 am
  #1664  
 
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Is there a website on which I can find the reasons for historic delays and cancellations?

I’m about to submit my claim for EU261 comp for my cancelled LHR - AUH flight yesterdqy but I would like to check back on the offcial reason for my delay on my BKK to LHR flight on 13th November. The ground staff in BKK told me it was due to a lightening strike, but I’d like to be sure. Thinking back I have a feeling they may have said a lighting issue, which got me thinking it may have been something to do with a rolling delay due the the runway light issue at LHE earlier this month.
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Old Dec 2, 2018, 5:02 am
  #1665  
 
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Have a question about a hypothetical case. Flight A-C via B all on the same ticket/airline. A-B is over 1500km and B-C is less than 1500km. A-B is delayed causing a missed connection and thus a rebooked B-C flight arriving 2.5 hours later than what was originally booked. Will there be any compensation due?
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