Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

    Hide Wikipost
Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: serfty
Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
Print Wikipost

Closed Thread

Old Oct 24, 18, 9:08 am
  #1531  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 38,124
Originally Posted by Leaping_Deere View Post
My question is do I have any grounds to demand the full reimbursement for the BA tickets? please ask if you need any more information.
You are certainly entitled to compensation under Article 7, and you're entitled to re-routing. That BMI paid the delta in fares is correct, perhaps generous given what some airlines (won't) do. But I don't think you can extend that to all travel, the re-route provision is intended to get you to your immediate destination. It's not an explicit mechanism to prevent being out of pocket either. I think there is a point worth highlighting here, namely that if force to reroute, one needs to be cautious about how this is done.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Oct 24, 18, 10:18 am
  #1532  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lincoln, UK
Programs: BA Gold, TK, DL, IHG Spire, HHonours Gold, Hertz Presidents Club
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
You are certainly entitled to compensation under Article 7, and you're entitled to re-routing. That BMI paid the delta in fares is correct, perhaps generous given what some airlines (won't) do. But I don't think you can extend that to all travel, the re-route provision is intended to get you to your immediate destination. It's not an explicit mechanism to prevent being out of pocket either. I think there is a point worth highlighting here, namely that if force to reroute, one needs to be cautious about how this is done.
Thanks Mr CWS, To be honest I have reached a point where I was prepared to knock the 200 on the head that I'm out of pocket in order to get a result, by the time I mess about with some sort of MCOL or ADR I'll spend that in time etc etc.

I just wanted an opinion on wether I was having the wool pulled over my eyes.

My employer has a very comprehensive travel policy which believe it or not includes personal travel, I may see if that can fill the short fall.
Leaping_Deere is offline  
Old Oct 24, 18, 4:45 pm
  #1533  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: usa
Programs: hyatt, jet blue, united, & ba
Posts: 55
A thank you for those who contribute to/moderate this forum. Had no understanding of these regulations prior to reviewing this blog. Was able to file with BA and receive 600 Euro for a long haul flight which was delayed by 24 hours.
notthatdeadyet is offline  
Old Oct 25, 18, 6:40 pm
  #1534  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by Leaping_Deere View Post
I will apologise first because this is not a BA compensation question but flybmi, however I hope you can forgive me, looking for advice on what I should do.

I was due to be on BM1508 on 06/07/18 and it was cancelled 5 minutes before scheduled departure time (it had been delayed already)

No one from BM was at STN to assist and after waiting 20 minutes on hold to BM, the line was cut and when we called back it was after 8 so the office was closed.(quite a few passengers at the same flight did the same)

Had to be in NI asap so with no other option or assistance I rebooked returns flights on BA for the next day to BHD.

a few days after I sent both a copy of my BM ticket and my BA ticket asking for the EC261 compensation and reimbursement for my BA tickets.

Now after 3 1/2 months of sporadic calling (and emailing the CEO three times) I have been made an offer.

The EU compensation has been offered and they have offered to refund the outbound fare to LDY and pay the difference between the BA fare and the BM fare.

They say because I didnt take the return flight I am not eligible for reimbursement for that cost. Now I can see some logic in that (in hindsight I should of perhaps only booked a one way) however saying that I don't know how I would of dealt with the logistics of getting my car from LHR to STN in such a short space of time, all off which are caused by BM.

Also the return flight 08/07/18 was late departing and leaving, only about an hour late so perhaps not relevant.

The total amount they have offered me including the compensation still leaves me out of pocket, (the BA fare was high) and I've not even bothered to count the other costs, extra car parking at LHR for example.

My question is do I have any grounds to demand the full reimbursement for the BA tickets? please ask if you need any more information.
You should have been given three offers when you were at STN. Since you couldn't manage to contact anyone from the airline, you were not offered either of them and they would then be required to pay compensation to you for this reason.

You should have been offered rerouting as soon as possible. It's unclear if you're entitled to travel on a different carrier. If an offer is made by the airline, then it may be subject to an interpretation of the words "comparable transport conditions" in the regulation. I don't think that this has been tested in court, and it could go either way. You may have better grounds for compensation given that you were not given any rerouting offer at all - I'm not sure what information you're expected to have about "comparable transport conditions" for rebooking purposes if the airline chooses to remain silent. They could maybe choose to say that you have to wait until tomorrow before you can request a rerouting, but in that case they would still have to provide a way for you to contact them to get a hotel voucher.

In other words, they may have to refund your BA outbound leg while keeping the money for the original ticket and not refunding the BA return leg. They would probably also have had to compensate you for Stansted Express+Heathrow Express train tickets (or taxi costs) had you taken that route, and then the return ticket would have been useful as your car could have remained at STN. They confused you by providing no information whatsoever about your rights although they were required to provide that information. I'm not sure if this lack of information entitles you to some extra compensation (for example amounting to the rest of your extra costs).

You should also have been offered to have the original BM ticket (outbound & return) refunded in full, or to change the dates to some later dates (maybe useful if you often travel on this route). Note that you would in both cases have to pay all your BA + parking costs, so this might not be your best option.
Some person is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 10:18 am
  #1535  
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Singapore
Programs: IHG Plat Ambassador, HHonors Diamond; A3 *Nothing ; BA Exec. Club Gold; Flying Blue Ivory
Posts: 1,376
Originally Posted by OldFruity View Post
Re the BA12 saga. Arrived about 5 hrs late. Filed a claim for Euro 600 under the advice given by CWS via the contact us page through Manage my Account. Will report back if anything results. Very stressful for me as I was initially rebooked from the early Prg flight to the second of the day. Then as things developed I missed this, but wasnt sure what arrangements had been made until arriving at Lhr. Was rebooked on the 3rd flight of the day on BAs initiative and sweated on my bag making the connection - which it did otherwise I would be sitting here working in Malta (early morning next day departure from Prg) with what I was wearing leaving Singapore. I have never been so happy to see a bag!
Just to add re a previous comment,BA made no announcement re the posibility of compensation - in fact completely the opposite. The silence on the subject to a regular traveller (1k) was disappointing to say the least. The folder with BP for onwards connection booking did contain a leaflet pertaining to ones rights and EU compo though.
OF
Originally Posted by OldFruity View Post
BA 12 out of Singapore delayed substantially tonight. Acft arrived today from maintenance in Manilla and apparently had vital medical equipment missing so Its a No Go at present and BA are currently trying to source replacement items. Should find out shortly if we are going anywhere tonight. 3 hrs late so far and no idea if we are due anything other than an explanation and an apology.
OF
Originally Posted by Globalist View Post
One of my friends was on that flight and claimed the EC 261 600 euro for the 4hr+ delay on a flight over 3,500km.

BA did not proactively point the passengers to their rights. My friend is not a frequent flyer and would not have been aware of this (until I told him).
BA did not provide any vouchers or other assistance before the flight.

To me this is clearly BA their fault.

Globalist
My friend received confirmation today he is receiving the 600 euro.

I guess there was no contest in this case anyway.

Globalist
Globalist is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 12:31 pm
  #1536  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: HKG/LON
Programs: QRPC-Gold/Sapphire CXMPC-Silver
Posts: 65
CEDR missed deadline

Hi All,

I submitted another case through CEDR, the deadline for adjudication has passed, but the decision is still not available. Anybody have experience with such a situation?

Thanks,
Kelvin
HOLYMOLEAIR is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 1:26 pm
  #1537  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 38,124
CEDR is overloaded work wise, and it's not unusual for them to run over their own target deadlines by a couple of weeks.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 1:30 pm
  #1538  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: HKG/LON
Programs: QRPC-Gold/Sapphire CXMPC-Silver
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
CEDR is overloaded work wise, and it's not unusual for them to run over their own target deadlines by a couple of weeks.
cheers CWS! Guess I'll keep waiting then.
HOLYMOLEAIR is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 11:01 pm
  #1539  
sgd
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 21
I am in the process of claiming EC261 compensation from BA for flight cancellation at short notice due to the 787 engine issue. BA did not provide written Notification of Rights / Article 14. I only just found out that they were supposed to. Does anyone know what the significance of this is in relation to my EC261 claim?
sgd is offline  
Old Oct 28, 18, 12:38 am
  #1540  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 38,124
Originally Posted by sgd View Post
I am in the process of claiming EC261 compensation from BA for flight cancellation at short notice due to the 787 engine issue. BA did not provide written Notification of Rights / Article 14. I only just found out that they were supposed to. Does anyone know what the significance of this is in relation to my EC261 claim?
Whether a notice is given (as opposed to provided) to you won't make a difference to your claim here since you must have known about EC261 to be making a claim. The exception would be if the cancellation was more than 6 years ago, and that wouldn't be straightforward either. The issue of "give" versus "provide" was hotly debated here a few years ago and I'm not willing to go around that again, suffice to say that a number of FTers felt BA wasn't doing the right thing. However back in 2015 what BA, easyJet and Flybe agreed with the CAA in this area is that they would make clear notices on their website, OLCI, check-in desks and gates saying that a notification was available in the event of disruption. At least for BA this is what happens, for example see below, and there are about 400 notices of EC261 in Terminal 5. This satisfied the CAA's reading of the Regulation and I suspect it would need a appellate court to hold this reading to be incorrect. If you did do an OLCI - desktop or App - or desk check-in for your eventual flight, unless there is some other factor involved, I'm not sure how you would have missed this note.


Having said that, the text referred to here is a very vague CAA leaflet known as CAP1126 - it's that blue A4 leaflet folded into 3 which you may have seen lying around LHR and other airports - which is is very non specific about the process other than "put in a claim". So let me "provide" you with a copy of the Notification you missed out on, I doubt it will advance matters a lot. To be fair to the CAA, their website in the EC261 area is a lot more consumer friendly than the other NEBs and does go into a lot of fairly specific detail.
sgd likes this.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Nov 1, 18, 3:46 pm
  #1541  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Hhonors Diamond, IHG Platinum, BA Silver
Posts: 222
bumped

Last edited by Wanderlust888; Nov 3, 18 at 1:30 pm Reason: bumped
Wanderlust888 is offline  
Old Nov 1, 18, 4:37 pm
  #1542  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Exec Club, HHonors
Posts: 273
I hope the collective BAEC board wisdom can help with this one.
My friends were booked to travel HAM-LHR on BA back in August.
At the gate the waiting passengers were told by the captain, who had come into the terminal, that as a crew member had been taken ill on the inbound flight they could only take a reduced number of passengers back to LHR. It would appear that volunteers were not asked for, perhaps due to time constraints. My two friends were among those told they would not be travelling on the flight - they were told by gate staff that hand baggage-only travellers had been prioritised for selection, again presumably to minimise delays.
The gate agent provided a meal voucher, a piece of paper in German only which appears to be about EU261, and told to contact their booking agent - in this case, BA itself.They rang BA customer services and were offered a flight later the following day. This was no good as both needed to be at work the following morning. At this point they asked if they made an alternative booking with another airline for the same day whether BA would pay for it. BA agreed to this. My friend is adamant they agreed to this, he has the agent's name/reference and presumably the calls are recorded. On the strength of this, they booked with Easyjet to LGW for about GBP200 each that same afternoon. They then travelled to LHR to collect their car.

In short, BA have now emailed to say they are not paying anything, citing "extraordinary circumstances" and saying they are not liable for the cost of the alternative flights.

1. I believe "extraordinary circumstances" is only for delays, not denied boarding. Am I correct?
2. Assuming BA did agree over the phone to cover the cost of an alternative flight and if this can be proved, can they now be held to this?
3. Are delays calculated to the arrival city, i.e. London, or to the specific arrival airport if that is the necessary destination. My friends arrived at LHR at least three hours later than scheduled, but less than that to LGW.

Thank you in advance.
robertf999 is offline  
Old Nov 1, 18, 9:07 pm
  #1543  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 38,124
Originally Posted by robertf999 View Post
In short, BA have now emailed to say they are not paying anything, citing "extraordinary circumstances" and saying they are not liable for the cost of the alternative flights.

1. I believe "extraordinary circumstances" is only for delays, not denied boarding. Am I correct?
2. Assuming BA did agree over the phone to cover the cost of an alternative flight and if this can be proved, can they now be held to this?
3. Are delays calculated to the arrival city, i.e. London, or to the specific arrival airport if that is the necessary destination. My friends arrived at LHR at least three hours later than scheduled, but less than that to LGW.
I will answer the specific questions first, then I will look at the operational mistakes before going back to EC261.
1) IDB: Correct - IDB does not have an extraordinary circumstances defence. And if it did, BA's crew levels is a matter of choice for the airline, had they operated with a different complexion of crew and passenger numbers - which happens all the time - then there wouldn't have been a problem. So I don't think EC would work even if it did apply. There is, however, something in the definitions which suggests that IDB for safety reasons isn't IDB, but my reading of that clause is that it relates to the individual's safety (e.g. the passenger is unwell). If the claim was for delay rather than specifically IDB you can see where BA's refusal could have come from.
2) Rerouting via easyJet: The telephone call should have been recorded, my guess is that actually the agent may well have nuanced the wording somewhat here, and though the passengers may have had a clear impression of being offered the option of buying elsewhere, I would be somewhat surprised if the agent was completely overt in saying that, since that isn't BA's SOP in this area. However I do think you potentially have a case here, for other reasons.
3) LGW v LHR: This isn't totally clear in the Regulation, however I think you are able to take the view from other parts of the Regulation that using another airport which results in additional travel time is part of the delay timing. My strong suspicion is that if you use where you were actually trying to get to (home, office etc) then a judge would probably entertain that. If you had your car parked at LHR that would create a clear need to add in the LGW-LHR travel time, for example. It could be unrealistic to pursue this (given that IDB would apply anyway) since it could be argued that you made your own travel arrangements here rather than let BA re-route. On the other hand presumably the re-route options that BA did offer only resulted in delay anyway.

The operational failure here was that the ground agent in HAM should have rebooked the passengers themselves, using other airlines if necessary, presumably Lufthansa (they can't rebook on to easyJet due to easyJet's GDS system). I'm guessing they didn't offer this since after the flight the ground agents in check-in would have gone off duty, which is pretty poor of them if the case. Most ground agents would have done this even when not BA employed or paid to do it, and I've been rebooked in HAM during a recent bad weather event.

There isn't a specific right to being rebooked under the Regulation on to another airline, a long story, but the CAA have in the past said that if an airline can't rebook you the same day on short-haul then you should rebook yourself and claim against the airline - there is documentation to support this. When Ryanair protested about this during their recent strikes, the CAA allowed Ryanair to make it "same day or next day". However this was a complex one due to the strike aspect and may be argued to be specific to that dispute (plus the fact that Ryanair's routes are often monopolies). There has not been a binding judgement in this area, and I can't believe BA would be seeking for one to be found either.

My view is that if you pursued this case very carefully via MCOL you should get the rerouting aspect refunded on a number of grounds (what the agent promised, the Regulation's bias to protecting consumers, next available flight, failure to pay IDB immediately, failure to reroute immediately), but it would require some attention to detail on the submission and potentially some effort if BA defends the case. It's not risk-free. However in similar cases, BA have not allowed it to get to court. You don't need a copy of the tape incidentally, just a Statement of Truth as to what was said. The IDB aspect alone could go fairly safely to CEDR and probably wouldn't get that far if the submission was carefully worded - a paralegal wouldn't be able to come up with a defence on that one.
robertf999 likes this.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Nov 2, 18, 10:30 am
  #1544  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Exec Club, HHonors
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post


My view is that if you pursued this case very carefully via MCOL you should get the rerouting aspect refunded on a number of grounds (what the agent promised, the Regulation's bias to protecting consumers, next available flight, failure to pay IDB immediately, failure to reroute immediately), but it would require some attention to detail on the submission and potentially some effort if BA defends the case. It's not risk-free. However in similar cases, BA have not allowed it to get to court. You don't need a copy of the tape incidentally, just a Statement of Truth as to what was said. The IDB aspect alone could go fairly safely to CEDR and probably wouldn't get that far if the submission was carefully worded - a paralegal wouldn't be able to come up with a defence on that one.
Many thanks CWS for a comprehensive yet very understandable reply. Very helpful. And at 3am too! (Though you may be in another time zone...)
robertf999 is offline  
Old Nov 3, 18, 1:28 pm
  #1545  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Hhonors Diamond, IHG Platinum, BA Silver
Posts: 222
I had an ET redemption seat on the last flight of the day which was cancelled at the gate for technical reasons.
I immediately self-re-booked a CE redemption on the first flight the next morning. There were no ET redemptions available on that first flight and the Silver line was closed.

Can I claim back the additional Avios?
Wanderlust888 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread