Any rumours for F updates?

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Old Dec 28, 17, 6:57 am
  #31  
 
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Slightly off topic here, but the Nespresso coffee they do in F, does it come from those capsules I use in my machine at home from Nespresso or say L'Or / Starbucks / Taylor' etc. that you buy in a supermarket?
Just wondering as since they only carry 10 and they can and do run out, if my own would work (sometimes buy some in the boutiques when travelling).

I don't love or hate BA F. It's a waste on short flights such as the 5h40 BOS-LHR flight I took on Monday, yet is better for the longer hauls (well, depending on cost).
That said, for the most part, crew wise, it generally follows the same old pattern of getting things done quickly, vanishing for hours etc.
Yes It's more private, posher, maybe some pyjamas and CCR access etc. but it's still a mixed bag at the end of the day.

Loved the 787-9 seat although did need a little more privacy.
Would like to see Bose headphones offered and some better organising of food and drink loads, whether it involves pre-ordering, actually looking at what people want (not loading 14 salads, 12 cold cous cous things and 2 hot beef dishes and then run out when 12 people don't want cous cous for some reason), or just the odd extra item.
That said, I've had my first choices everytime, although I'm generally too stuffed after the CCR to eat a lot anyway.

Last edited by xenole; Dec 28, 17 at 7:09 am
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Old Dec 28, 17, 7:02 am
  #32  
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Depends on the aircraft and what type of machine is fitted.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 7:26 am
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Originally Posted by scillyisles View Post
I suspect I fly AA much more than you do and have yet to encounter a surly crew perhaps you have been unlucky.
i agree that BA F is well below the standards of SQ, EK, QF etc, but if youíve never experienced a surly AA crew then youíre lottery ticket lucky!
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Old Dec 28, 17, 7:36 am
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I would say my last CX F didn't quite hit my expectations based on previous flights.
Crew were fine although not exceptional.
Some things such as the pralines on a plate now being 2 reasonable chocolates in a box definitely detracted from the overall experience in my opinion.

It's a mixed bag F wise for me. Whilst I haven't flown it quite as much as some here, and not on every airline going for comparisons, there definitely are times when the highly thought of F cabins don't quite hit the mark compared to a competitor's possibly weaker product.

The bedding on BA doesn' bother me. I generally tend to just put the seat in flat bed mode and throw the blanket or quilt over me. I tend to either lie flat on my back or adopt a fetal position, so might not notice bumps in the seat.
Must admit though that my head seems too close the seat and it feels unnatural to me.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 7:39 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by scillyisles View Post
I suspect I fly AA much more than you do and have yet to encounter a surly crew perhaps you have been unlucky.






Wow, this point really stands out for me. I flew 77 sectors with AA in 2017. They have some great crew but have their fair share of surly ones too as do most/all airlines* including BA (stated for the avoidance of doubt having removed my imaginary 'spectacles' ).

*With the possible exception for me of Middle Eastern and Far Eastern airlines. I have not yet encountered a single crew member with a surly attitude towards customers on MH, QR or CX.

Last edited by golfmad; Dec 28, 17 at 8:12 am Reason: Added CX to my list.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 8:08 am
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Originally Posted by golfmad View Post

*With the possible exception for me of Middle Eastern and Far Eastern airlines. I have not yet encountered a single crew member with a surly attitude towards customers on MH or QR.
Seconded, whilst BA and AA can deliver exceptional experience, the CX,MH,QR crew never deliver a 'bad' experience that is more common on BA,AA and the likes...
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Old Dec 28, 17, 8:14 am
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Originally Posted by scillyisles View Post


1. In essence BA have a monopoly on routes from LHR particularly if you travel globally from LHR. T5 is convenient, T3 is not. I agree that getting benefits from BAEC makes customers reluctant to move elsewhere. I enjoy these benefits too.
2. Commenting on and saying that the BA F seat is flawed for sleeping does not mean that other aspects of the seat are not good. for example the BA F seat is very good when lounging and is good when in the seating position.
3. Thank you for acknowledging that the BA F seat needs a much thicker mattress - I agree.
4.Your third paragraph is essentially agreeing with what I say in point 1. The comment you make about BA F being cheaper is true under certain conditions such as advance purchase/sales etc but BA is a master at upping the price for late availability and I have experienced the situation where BA CW return to Singapore was more of less the same price as SQ Suites. Naturally, I chose the SQ option.I suspect I fly AA much more than you do and have yet to encounter a surly crew perhaps you have been unlucky.
5. I fully accept other people have positive experiences on BA and have no wish to silence or censure those views.
The problem is that to BOS you only have three airlines to choose from at LHR. These are VS, DL and BA of which only the latter has an F cabin to use. I've now done F on the A380, 777 & 747 paid for with cash, miles/avios or a combination of the two. Also VS and DL only have one flight a day each and that's not much good in case of IRROPS. So on the route I fly most it's BA or nothing if you want to fly F. What I would like is personal transfers to the plane at LHR even if it was just a spruced up minibus for all the F passengers on that flight. Nothing says First Class like stepping on to an air side bus.

Last edited by Jimmie76; Dec 28, 17 at 8:21 am
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Old Dec 28, 17, 8:20 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Aztec_Flyer View Post


i agree that BA F is well below the standards of SQ, EK, QF etc, but if youíve never experienced a surly AA crew then youíre lottery ticket lucky!
I've had good crews on AA and equally lousy crews on AA who it seemed thought the job would have been better without passengers.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 8:29 am
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Wow all this critique and itís got this far without any real mention of QR J!

I think itís clear now that BA are in no way trying to compete with SQ, EK etc with their F product at this point and as touched upon above once new aircraft come in to replace the 747s and older 777s weíll start to see a decline in routes offering F.

Its only once this has occurred that I can imagine any significant upgrade will take place, when like AF, LX etc they only offer it on certain routes where a profit can be made from a better service.

Re sleeping, I find the BA seat fine, even on the 747 and sometimes donít even bother with the mattress.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj View Post
I think it’s clear now that BA are in no way trying to compete with SQ, EK etc with their F product at this point and as touched upon above once new aircraft come in to replace the 747s and older 777s we’ll start to see a decline in routes offering F.

Its only once this has occurred that I can imagine any significant upgrade will take place, when like AF, LX etc they only offer it on certain routes where a profit can be made from a better service.

Re sleeping, I find the BA seat fine, even on the 747 and sometimes don’t even bother with the mattress.
I suspect that will be the case and my own view is that F will be reduced over time, maybe even up to 5-10 years as the Jumbos/older 777's are eventually retired. I'd imagine JFK, LAX, HKG and the likes will still have a F cabin for the future. I like the independent leg rest option in a J or F seat and the latter of which old F used to have so I'd like to see that back and maybe higher privacy wings on the aisle sort of like the A380 F has but perhaps a little bit bigger.

As others have alluded to in this thread and others I think the real focus is on CW for the next couple of years.
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Old Dec 28, 17, 10:15 am
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Old Dec 28, 17, 10:24 am
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Old Dec 28, 17, 10:41 am
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77 View Post
I have 4 JAL F segments of 12+hours each next year that I am immensely looking forward to. (Less so to the CA F)
Look out for the synchronised bowing rituals, they are like no other.
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Old Dec 29, 17, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Jimmie76 View Post
I've had good crews on AA and equally lousy crews on AA who it seemed thought the job would have been better without passengers.
Getting slightly OT for this thread, but I fly 50+ sectors with AA each year and I find that the legacy AA crews are much more polite and attentive then the old US Airways crews (now AA).
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Old Dec 29, 17, 4:17 pm
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Originally Posted by golfmad View Post
Wow, this point really stands out for me. I flew 77 sectors with AA in 2017. They have some great crew but have their fair share of surly ones too as do most/all airlines* including BA (stated for the avoidance of doubt having removed my imaginary 'spectacles' ).

*With the possible exception for me of Middle Eastern and Far Eastern airlines. I have not yet encountered a single crew member with a surly attitude towards customers on MH, QR or CX.
I fully agree with golfmad here - well actually, not fully because I have even experienced surly crews on the likes of QR, MH and more rarely CX. I think possibly the only airlines on which I have found crews almost completely 'equal' are JL and KE.

I must say that the comparisons of surly vs friendly crews never ceases to puzzle me a little anyway. If some HR department has found a way of hiring never grumpy people in every job, I think they should quickly patent their process and sell its use for a hefty price. What's the miraculous recipe here? Do crews from airline x never have an argument with their partner? Do their kids never bring bad marks from school or fight with their little friends? Are they uniquely immune to depression? Are they always paired with their best pals on flight? Do they never pay taxes, get a parking fine, or have their boiler breaking down? Heck, I would like to think of myself as someone who tends to be friendly and pleasant in my professional interactions, yet I have no doubt that there are days when people must think I am a massive a****** and quite understandably so.

Over the years, I would say that I have encountered both my best and my worst crews on AF, and close to my best and close to my worst on BA. Even on KE and JL which I mentioned above, I would almost bet that my impression of 'equality' is due to my inability to pick some of the more subtle shades of mood expressions in Japanese and Korean interaction compared to a native, who might equally find all Americans "nice" without realising that the very same words could be expressed very positively or very negatively by that 'other'.

I suspect that much judgement on good and bad crew is simply steeped in cultural habits and expectations, be they comfort with one's own primary social codes or idealisation of others. For example, many here praise the tendency of many BA crew to 'banter'. My sense is that this is merely (often British) people just being comfortable with a British mode of social interaction. Now if you really like banter, arguably, you get more of it on KLM than on BA, but as it happens, quite a few of my British friends and colleagues find KL crew 'rude' just because the frankness threshold tolerated in Dutch banter is probably quite a lot higher than in British banter. And who has forgotten the time when BA told its crew to pat customers on the shoulders and what not in the 1990s because US passengers used to consider BA crew stiff and unfriendly compared to the very different conception of friendliness that prevails in much of the US society and hospitality industry where calling you 'guys' and checking on how you are doing every 26 1/2 minute is considered good waiting practice? Now of course, conversely, here we read a lot about QR and EK crew being considered 'robotic'. I find that criticism quite absurd myself but suspect it is just related to the same differences in standard modes of interaction. For those who wish QR crew to 'banter' more, try and imagine how well it would be received were a young female cabin crew to 'banter' with a local sheik. She is not robotic, she is just fully aware of the expectations and preferences of much of (and her most important) constituency. As for AF and LX crews, it is worth remembering that France, for example, is a country where restaurant service is considered a profession with its technical skills and training. The whole idea that many US and UK restaurants are staffed by students is just extraordinary to many French or Swiss people for whom those kids would be more suited to work at McDonalds or Starbucks but where no 'decent' restaurant would ever think of putting its reputation in the hands of some unprofessional kids however willing. A waiter - not least a senior waiter or a Matre d'Hotel are not praised for kissing up to you and saying that the customer is always right but for having proven exceptional knowledge and technical skills over the years, which is still apparent where you see them collect 20 plates on their arms whether needing to go through the noisy and embarrassing routine of emptying/piling/moving remaining contents or cutlery in front of table guests who do not wish to feel that they are in the midst of kitchen next to the dishwasher. So yes, many a French or Swiss passenger will look at the way crew pour wine or cut cheese on most foreign crews (that is where cheese is at least cut and wine is at least poured rather than your getting pre-plated stuff) and feel a little ill at ease.

The same goes for the tea and coffee experiences across airlines incidentally. Many Brits will find comfort in the way BA serves its cups of teas whilst most of the rest of the tea drinking world, from Japan to Turkey and from Russia to China will contemplate in horror. Conversely, many a Brit would consider the cup of tea served on Aeroflot where it has happened to me for crew to offer the 3 or 10 sugar that cup is intended to 'take' a vision of horror. And I'm not even starting on coffee here, but of course, there is a reason why the topic of espresso not being offered in J comes frequently on our forum, not least from posters who come from countries where an espresso is considered a basic amenity!

Now of course, especially over long haul flights, many crew are very good at picking up passengers' styles and expectations, but this takes time, it takes numbers (you will hardly do that when you have to serve 75 pax in your section) and non-schizophrenic people cannot just be completely different characters with each and everyone of their passenger with different expectations. Meanwhile, there is no shame in feeling more at ease with people who share our own cultural codes, or on the contrary, being delighted and fascinated by something which precisely departs from it, but it is probably important to recognise it for what it is. The whole notion that crew on airline x are much nicer/better/friendlier or on the contrary surly/robotic/arrogant than on airline y tends to say a lot more about the eyes of the beholder than about crew themselves in a vast majority of cases. It incidentally gets quite easy to check on U2 where you can very easily feel the difference between flights flown by EasyJet UK, EasyJet Switzerland, and EasyJet France to name but a few. In the meantime, I suspect that all airlines will continue to have great, horrid and a lot of good crew, and some crew members which are in a better or worse mood (as per another current thread) from one flight to the next.
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Last edited by orbitmic; Dec 29, 17 at 8:26 pm
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