Worcester

I have been told by a BA pilot that the controllers at IST do prioritise local traffic, so may be the case for de icing. My experience of snow at IST is utter chaos.

I don't often praise BA but they do a far better job of IRROPS than TK.

LordBuckethead

That may be true, but when do TK ever do a proper safety demonstration that includes pointing out the exit doors? On my flights they haven't even stood in the aisle during the video, and have no objections to people standing in the aisles, blocking screens, or talking over the videos, whichever language is currently playing. They may put the right attention into safe flight ops, but they certainly don't give the impression to their passengers that they care about it, and perception matters when it comes to views on safety.

KARFA

BA's don't seem to be because pilots can't fly a plane safely though.

Worcester

Prospero

I'm a little worried about how effective the landing guide issued to TK pilots might be under snowy airfield conditions

PUCCI GALORE

And so it goes on. I am so disinterested in the eighth wonder of the world that TK is supposed to be. This is not the ATk Forum. Forgive me not getting into any arguments about how good one is, and how bad BA is supposed to be, they will have my money each and every time. I have flown TK and I would have little confidence In the majority of the crews with whom I have flown evacuating in an emergency. This is not scientific, it is how I feel.and that is all that matters to me.

What I simply don’t understand is that we were told that it had been heard at the highest level that thismwould end in September (I think that this is what the thread is about) and it didn’t. So, anything else is pure conjecture and we can attach as much weight as we would to any other piece of chat board gossip.

hfly

Worcester, I really do not know how to comment on the IRROPS thing. I fully agree that when it goes bad at TK, it seems to go really bad, especially for those who are connecting, on the ground their reliance seemingly on third party workers has been disastrous when they have had bad storms, so there is no way to defend that. That being said, it would seem that the threshold for an IRROPS situation at BA is far lower and they deal with a lot more of them, and the experience, has been less than stellar especially the two big IRROPS days this year, one totally self inflicted with the IT issue, and this past week with the icing sugar.

As to pilots, these days on TK you have as much chance of getting a foreign pilot as you do a Turkish pilot and I have met several who were BA pilots in recent years (generally 777 pilots) so I am not so sure what you are all on about with that. As for the funny graphic above, could apply to a not so distant BA flight or two.

Look, I am not the great defended of TK, one can look at my posts about them on the other forum, but I will give them their due, and not take unfair pot shots. As for the subject of this thread. Whether Pucci wants to accept it or not, obviously as EVERY OTHER Carrier that flies between Turkey and the UK has NOT had this provision for months, it is obvious that this is not a safety issue, but rather a BA issue. Another posted specifically stated what the cost issue was to BA, and they have decided not to spend the money. Hell, I think they may drop the route, they have been down to one flight a day much of this current season.

LTN Phobia

All the more reason not to spend the money then. Seems almost sensible. If they spend the money on extra IST security measures, it might result in a cut elsewhere.

I have my thoughts on TK but I shall refrain from taking the thread OT with that.

Worcester

I can only praise TKs onboard service & seats.

That said there have been a couple of time I have experience IRROPS with TK, both it was impossible to get information from anyone at the airport, on the phone or online (even with my Turkish speaking wife). It took two days to get sorted out. Our one claim for very modest compensation (€70 for hotel and I think TL40) was ignored as was a follow-up emails. This was flying in J. Anecdotally I have heard similar stories, especially around EU261). This contrasts with my experience of BA, for one of my staff flying on a On Business redemption.

With regards safety on a recent flight, I did very politely point out that someone had their laptop out just before landing (they had it out for take off as well) but was cheerfully informed that it was okay because it was in flight safe mode. The crew member checked and came back and asked the passenger to stow it and apologised to me, which is good, but somewhat surprising that they did not know this, it's not really the place of passengers to instruct crew on basic safety. I have noted any number of other issues such as pilots smoking on the ramp, the almost incomprehensible English of some flight crew (most have excellent English I hasten to add) and passengers standing up during taxing and not being told to sit down.

Anecdotes alone though of little value. But I think back to the incident at Schipol where the death of nine people could easily have been avoided if the Captain had checked what the trainee pilots had warned him about rather than telling him to shut up. A piece of bravado which cost the pilot his life. There is a difference between flying and F16 and a B737. TK don't appear to train it's pilots to adjust between the two.

Yes some accidents are unavoidable with the best will in the world. TK is my very minor perspective does not take safety as seriously as other airlines, particularly BA. Thus in time it will eventually lead to accidents which were avoidable.

hfly

At the time of the AMS accident, which was almost 9 years ago, the TK pilot corps was almost exclusively former Turkish Air Force, as you have stated, and the airline was about 40% smaller than BA. Today the airline is 40% larger than BA, and the vast majority of pilots are not from the Turkish Air Force, in fact several of them are British and were hired away from British Airways. That accident did happen and did contribute to them tightening things up. Much like I am sure that the supposedly fouled fuel, or the BA pilot who "lost it" (PEK-LHR flight) but that no one wants to talk about contributed to BA changing some of its procedures.

This thread is not about safety, it is not even about quality, it is about BA NOT allowing electronics in cabin of its one remaining (back to two soon) flight to ISt when every single other airline between the UK and Turkey allows them, because every other airline, including Easyjet, Sun Express and a dozen charter operations have all made the proper investment. This is a shame. Personally I can say straight that BA has lost at least 4 flights from me this year solely based on this, as there have been times that I have needed my computer and would have had no other reason to check a bag other than this and TK has gotten the business instead. I know people who dogmatically loyal to BA out of the Turkish market , that have flown TK because of this, and when they have done so have realized how much better TK is than BA on this route. When you add this to other cut backs, not to mention BoB, it is almost looking like BA wants to sabotage itself in this market.

Worcester

I agree that TK blows BA away on hard and soft product and much prefer flying with them SH. But sadly they do not make me feel safe and their inability to enforce basic safety which I have witnessed (as have others of the TK forum lest I be accused of making this up) suggests that lessons have not been entirely learnt (as does the fact that they never responded to my email warning them if my experience)

Regarding the electronics ban, it has been suggested that BA still enforce the ban due to their internal security assessment. I don't know if that is true but it can't cost that much more than checking every single bag as they do now.

londonbus

Similarly at Amman, RJ has additional measures to allow laptops to go onboard - BA doesn't.

BA6501

Same in Beirut with ME and in Cairo with MS.
Is BA the only airline still banning electronics on board?

PUCCI GALORE

Has anyone asked them outright? If not, I intend to. I'm not the least bit interested what any other airline does, but if BA is doing something different, it would be good to know why. I cannot believe that they are having all those extra staff at the gate for fun.

I have no problem in asking the question, and unless someone has an answer that they have actually given in the last two months, I intend to do so.

LCY8737

Pricing matching product. If BA were using the mid hauls to IST then they‘d be able to compete with TK. As it stands you get economy seating with cheap champagne, so the BA J price point better be somewhere close to TK Y.