simons1

Honestly, this is all getting boring now.

You object to the use of 'absolute nonsense' whilst calling someone else's comments 'weak and amateurish'.

Like you I don't think there is much of a case but it's the individual's right to chance it at MCOL or arbitration. You have made the same points several times now, so why not just let them get on with it if need be.

Andriyko

Suz Bishop

So we are now 8 weeks on from that weekend. My BA flight from Berlin to Heathrow on the 10th December departed 5 hours late and then got cancelled mid air above the english channel. We then were re-routed back to Berlin the last 30 mins of the flight were turbulent and we landed in a dense snowstorm, much thicker than any snow I've seen in London. The only reason we were given is that Heathrow was now shut which wasn't true as we later found out some flights were still landing. On leaving the aircraft we were then completely abandoned. 8 weeks later we have still not been offered a flight home or any checks to see if we have got home. I am still unable to speak to any human at BA as now phone lines have been cut to 1pm-5pm monday to friday which either wont connect because of volume of calls or get cut off after queuing for an hour. Mobile app didnt work and website also didnt work. I have done an online complaint 4 times with nothing more than an automated response saying they would be in touch within 10 days that comes and goes. I have submitted an expenses claim 6 weeks ago again with no response.
so under EU261 'weather incompatible with operation of flight' surely can apply to my flight ? As we flew.. if anything BA put as more at risk landing in the Berlin snowstorm than we would have been landing at Heathrow where they had a little snow 12 hours earlier.
also where do we stand on the total lack of duty of care?

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum Suz Bishop, it's good to see you here, less good to read of your experiences. I think you may have put a similar post in the EC261 thread, but we try to avoid cross posting in this forum. I am sure your claim will be processed eventually but there is a backlog and submitting the same form repeatedly is perhaps adding to the backlog. If you think BA has had long enough to pay your expenses, use the advice in the EC261 thread post 1, send BA a recorded letter with a specific request for the refund, and then follow it up with MCOL on day 16. You can also go the CEDR route in this case, since it seems a cut and dried case, the rule for that is 8 weeks, which you now appear to be at. CEDR is also a fairly slow process (they are also overloaded!) but the wheels will turn eventually and BA will pay up. CEDR involves no up front costs so I'd probably suggest that route.

NWIFlyer

I’d also add to the very insightful advice you’ve been given by c-w-s that any claim you make through either CEDR or MCOL should concentrate solely on the law, and emotion should be avoided. This is just about the most clear-cut Duty of Care claim you’ll come across, there’s no chance of it not being paid if you do it right, so you have no need to add anything else - it’ll merely confuse the situation.

It’s worth emphasising that safety decisions on where to divert would be taken by the flight crew, and the flight plan would include suitable airports depending on circumstance. A landing at TXL, or elsewhere, would be considerably preferable to being held by ATC pending space being available at LHR or another UK airport and running out of fuel, and the crew would have evaluated this taking account of all the information available to them - which none of the passengers would have had.

Guy Betsy

Found this : https://www.flightright.com/your-rights/bad-weather

Often1

Exactly.

Safety first. The poster is new FT but the fact remains that commercial aviation these days is vastly safer than in the past, largely because carriers work not to take chances. It is hardly in BA's interest to have diverted the flight as it is then stuck with an aircraft and crew out of position and the same number of passengers to get to LHR.

Once you ask yourself whether it is just remotely possible that BA doesn't want your aircraft to crash and burn, you may come to accept the professional judgment of the Captain, licensed dispatcher and all of the other operations people involved in the decision-making process.

None of that obviates the duty of care under EC 261/2004. As others note, just make certain that you leave out statements which have nothing to do with whether and what you may collect and only serve to confuse. BA owes the duty of care whether or not there was turbulence. Thus, leave it out.

testycal

I posted in the compensation forum but will post general thoughts here given that it focues on weather and de-icing and thank everyone for their views. My Feb 28 flight from LHR to TLV BA163 was delayed 1 hour at gate and 4 hours after boarding while waiting in the de -iceing queue at T5C. I understand there are 12 stands at T5C. Captain advised us we were in the queue and each de-icing took approximately 20 minutes, some longer, some shorter depending on aircraft size. 4 hours is around 12 aircraft but perhaps less because trucks have to move into position. I suspect there was 1 de-icing crew on duty at T5C. I do not know how many flights departed from T5C that night or whether there were more crew or whether there were issues with having enough glycols on site and or whether the crew needed to refill the equipment they were using - all information which is relevant but of course never shared by BA.

We were not told of de-icing issues before we boarded...had we I would have purchased food and drink. On board we were given water/juice and they even pulled out the pretzels from storage. However, it was 4 hour on board and after a first leg and time between flights of 20 hours....it was pushing the limit of what was reasonable and expected. I thank BA for transporting me to my destination safely. I do not blame the crew as BA dictates and the crew often knows nothing more than what is fed to them.

Transparency would be a go along way towards allowing customers to evaluate the reason for a delay rather than a generic blame the weather or ATC response.

Fact sheet below relates to airport authority...note comment that
Airlines are responsible for de-icing aircraft.....more information but uncertain what BA has...I understand a company called Babcock is BA's contractor to de ice its aircraft....


And going back to 2010 when this came to a head and resulted in the Begg Report....

Recommendation 2:
The Panel recommends that BAA work with airlines, NATS and other relevant
stakeholders to review and invest in the aircraft de-icing processes and infrastructure to ensure the airport can maintain its flow rate in inclement weather. Consideration
should be given to reviewing the slot procedure in conditions of freezing precipitation to support remote de-icing procedures

http://im.ft-static.com/content/imag...144feab49a.pdf

https://skift.com/2018/03/01/heathro...ment-pays-off/

http://your.heathrow.com/wp-content/...sheets2014.pdf