Is De-Icing Really Considered 'Extraordinary Circumstances'
Dec 11, 2017, 2:26 pm
#31
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Dec 11, 2017, 2:32 pm
#32
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Aircraft can be (certainly EZY do this as well) de iced on stands to clear overnight ice & snow. Some aircraft will then not require any further de icing and can pushback, taxi and takeoff without issues. Other aircraft might well require further de icing and will load up and taxi off to be de iced.
Dec 11, 2017, 2:35 pm
#33
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The entire de-icing issue is a bit of a red herring as well. It is not as though an aircraft is deiced and then awaits its departure slot without regard to new ice. In poor conditions, the deicing treatment only lasts so long and must be repeated and then repeated again and again. That is a waste ---- and there is an environmental cost of the fluid to be considered ---- and thus, keeping the flow of aircraft is close to impossible when the weather breaks.
*It would in the middle of August.
Dec 11, 2017, 2:40 pm
#35
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It doesn't explain the whole issue but will certainly show that a lot more planes will have needed full de-icing than originally planned.
Dec 11, 2017, 2:55 pm
#36
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Not sure what your point is, but snow was forecast reasonably close nearby. Maybe not in the LHR TAF but, within 20-30 miles. Hardly unexpected that the forecast sleet turned into snow.
Presumably if the snow was forecast, HAL would’ve imposed more proactive flight cancellations and somewhat saved BA from its own incompetence.
Presumably if the snow was forecast, HAL would’ve imposed more proactive flight cancellations and somewhat saved BA from its own incompetence.
Dec 11, 2017, 2:59 pm
#37
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But it is no surprise to find FT yet again full of people displaying the fullness of their 20/20 hindsight.
Dec 11, 2017, 3:08 pm
#38
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The remote de-icing pads get activated when mass de-icing is about to start.
Dec 11, 2017, 3:12 pm
#39
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Can you imagine the outcry here if, every time there was no snow forecast for LHR but some was forecast for somewhere nearby, the BA schedule was proactively hacked to bits just in case the forecast might turn out to be wrong in the wrong direction?
But it is no surprise to find FT yet again full of people displaying the fullness of their 20/20 hindsight.
But it is no surprise to find FT yet again full of people displaying the fullness of their 20/20 hindsight.
They need to have some plan in place for “near hits” of snow that at least get some extra staff on call. That will cost money and may even raise fares, but the way BA operate today they have no ability to tolerate any mid sized hiccups.
Dec 11, 2017, 3:37 pm
#40
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Dec 11, 2017, 4:03 pm
#41
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Can you imagine the outcry here if, every time there was no snow forecast for LHR but some was forecast for somewhere nearby, the BA schedule was proactively hacked to bits just in case the forecast might turn out to be wrong in the wrong direction?
But it is no surprise to find FT yet again full of people displaying the fullness of their 20/20 hindsight.
But it is no surprise to find FT yet again full of people displaying the fullness of their 20/20 hindsight.
As for 20/20 hindsight, spare me the patronising. Some of us run critical national infrastructure for a living. We spend our lives planning for stuff that is a lot less frequent that a bit of normal winter weather. Everyone fails at some point, but you don’t last long if you don’t learn from it. At this point BA are one of two things, grossly incompetent at what they do, or they’ve accepted the risk that this will happen once or twice a year. I’m not sure either is acceptable in my view.
Dec 11, 2017, 4:23 pm
#42
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There's a conversation in the DL forum about the snow delays that ATL had this weekend as well. It contains a number of posts about de-icing procedures and its effects on airport operations. I found it an interesting comparative read: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...-8-2017-a.html
If you haven't seen it you might find those posts worth a look on de-icing issues at another big airport that doesn't usually see snow.
If you haven't seen it you might find those posts worth a look on de-icing issues at another big airport that doesn't usually see snow.
Dec 11, 2017, 4:24 pm
#43
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Its happened a number of times this year already (proactive cancellation for weather that didn’t materialise) and the world didn’t fall in.
As for 20/20 hindsight, spare me the patronising. Some of us run critical national infrastructure for a living. We spend our lives planning for stuff that is a lot less frequent that a bit of normal winter weather. Everyone fails at some point, but you don’t last long if you don’t learn from it. At this point BA are one of two things, grossly incompetent at what they do, or they’ve accepted the risk that this will happen once or twice a year. I’m not sure either is acceptable in my view.
As for 20/20 hindsight, spare me the patronising. Some of us run critical national infrastructure for a living. We spend our lives planning for stuff that is a lot less frequent that a bit of normal winter weather. Everyone fails at some point, but you don’t last long if you don’t learn from it. At this point BA are one of two things, grossly incompetent at what they do, or they’ve accepted the risk that this will happen once or twice a year. I’m not sure either is acceptable in my view.
Dec 11, 2017, 4:47 pm
#44
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As I understand it HAL mandate the proactice cancellations, BA have no choice. BA choose the flights to meet the number of slots reduced. It’s basically a way to save BA from their own incompetence.
Dec 11, 2017, 4:50 pm
#45
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Even if so, it didn't stop people coming on here whining about it ... damned if they do, damned if they don't.