No seatbelts for infants! [Comair]
 

We were on a BA flight (operated by Comair) today from Johannesburg to Cape Town with AllActionBaby (who should probably now be called AllActionToddler) and after the safety video as we were taxiing I asked for a seatbelt for her.

The FA told us that they don’t advise use of infant seatbelts as if we had to adopt the brace position the buckle on the adult belt and their buckle could potentially hurt the child. Surely the potential of being thrown up into the air if we hit turbulence or something is just as bad?? Also if you have a wriggly toddler who wants to run around the seatbelt is a good way of securing them!

I spent the whole flight hanging on to her for dear life :eek:

has as anyone else ever heard of this??

Flew AA domestic and there was no belt provided which suprised me at the time.

Different country’s have different rules, each if them think they are right!

I saw it on UA, and was very surprised too.

I wonder which method is actually the best one, in practice.

Every nation gets to make its own laws and thus rules. You may be used to UK or Chinese law, but you were in South Africa.

The most current science suggests that in a crash, a child not large enough to be strapped into his own seat or strapped into an approved child seat which locks into the aircraft seat with its own approved mechanism ---- lap child ---- should be held but not attached to the adult or to a seat.

Whether that is the case may say something about whether UK or South African rules are "better" but the fact is they are what they are.

We've just completed a few flights across the us and back to England with our 3 month old.

For the tatl we had the boy in a car seat which was an excellent solution for all as it gave us plenty of space and somewhere to park him.

On the domestics (AA) we held him throughout except for one flight where he had fallen asleep strapped to wife in sling when we were boarding. The FA said she had to inform us that the safest way was to have him unstrapped due to the requirements of the brace position.

A lot easier to hold a three month old than a toddler though I'd imagine!

Interestingly we flew comair about 3 weeks ago and we were given an infant seat belt for our little girl. Guess they couldn’t find the one for your flight or the rules changed in the last 3 weeks....it’s africa so perfectly possible

So is a straight jacket :rolleyes:

As for your other concern... The risk of you not being able to hold onto your child in an emergency is far lower than the certainty of serious internal damage to the child in the same emergency.

For someone who claims to be so concerned about their child, I find it strange that you have not considered an FAA approved car seat.

Accident scene with unconscious motorcyclist.

German driving test: Remove helmet.
UK driving test: Do not remove helmet.

Yes interesting which one is right. UK because if a brain trauma removal of helmet by a non medic could cause more damage is the thought behind it.

On the seat belt item I was told it is against FAA regulations from infants to use the lap belts for some of the reasons given above on safety in crash landing.
This maybe so but I would much rather have a baby strapped in in case of unforseen turbulance. Holding a baby tight in your hands for a transatlantic trip for so many hours is asking for trouble in the event of sudden turbulence. Much to be said for having an infant in their own seat even if they have to be on lap for take off and landing and unfortunately turbulance with no belt.

Hello everyone - first time post after a long time lurking...

We have seen this a few times on Comair when travelling with a toddler and a baby. As mentioned above, it is due to the South African regulations. However, the crew happily have us child extension seatbelts after we pointed out that we would prefer the potential risk from seatbelt buckle injuries to that from turbulence. My understanding is that they are carried on all flights but not proactively offered.

The assumption with a seat belt extender is that you will crush your child during a severe accident, but the child will not fly through the cabin to injure someone else. Those incidents are rare, but that's the general gist of it.

You have already decided against safety if you fly with a child in your lap, so I'm not really interested in the totally irrelevant opinions you may have on how that is safe.

Thanks for sharing these experiences LondonLondon, and welcome to Flyertalk and a particular welcome to the BA board. There would not be much to see here but for contributions from people like you, so many thanks, and I hope will see more. On this one, it would be very difficult, as a globe-trotting parent, to try and rationalise this issue.

Or USA you don’t need to wear a helmet

As others have alluded to, in the US the second belt for an infant is not allowed. The AA flight attendants seemed confused when we requested one. (Our son's first four flights were on BA, before we had ever flown a US domestic segment).

About 15 years ago I flew Air Berlin out of Stanstrd and was shocked and alarmed that my infant did not get a lap belt. The crew explained they did not offer them. Till then having only ever see lap belts this was really strange. Never flew AB again!

The best method in practice is for the child to have their own seat. Its not exactly Rocket science. Are there any countries that REQUIRE each pax to have a seat? In my opinion THEY would be the ones who were "right".

That is incorrect. And as a former EMT, we were taught to leave the helmet on. ( don't know what they currently teach)

https://www.lfda.org/issues/motorcycle-helmet-law

As far as what to do on scene for accident... Helmets protect the head, not the (c-)spine. They can also block access to the airway. There isn't a hard and fast rule about whether or not the helmet comes off.

Totally!
 

Same experience!

Neither.

Baby tossed around like a rag doll or baby squashed between parent and seat.

Take your pick.

It seems that it is regulated by states and there are in fact 3 states which have no law on wearing a helmet, including the State of New Hampshire whose motto "Live Free or Die" might be more accurate if changed to "Live free and die".

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/laws...orcyclehelmets

I know personal seats and car seats are more effective (when allowed by airlines), but no EU or US state had declared mandatory to book a seat and use specific harness for babies and toddlers, like they did for cars.
Instead EU and US airlines use a completely opposite method, with one saying the other is wrong. Hence my "question".

P.S.
Many years ago, in Italy, I volunteered on ambulances (paramedics didn't exist there and then) and during training I was taught to remove full helmets.

It seems clear that the safest option is to have an infant secured in an airline approved car seat in their own seat so why do BA make this impossible?

A number of UK car seats (including the very popular Maxi Cosi Pebble) are approved for aircraft use and designed to be able to be secured with the lap belt. However, they are designed to be fitted rear facing (the same way they are used in the car) but BA only permits forward facing seats to be used on its flights. Given new EU car seat regulations require children to rear face until at least 15 months (and recommend it for as long as possible), BAs position practically makes it near impossible to use a car seat for most infants. BA also apparently require than any seat has a 5 point harness - another requirement that doesn’t match car seat requirements as most use a 3 point design.

Have any of the posters that recommend the separate seat option for under twos managed this successfully on BA with a modern car seat?

You might see about getting a cheap US convertible car seat. They are all 5 pt with low weight limits for forward facing (which to me is not nearly as big a deal on a plane as in a car) as well as certified for lap belt use only, including dedicated infant seats.

Huh? Get out the wrong side of bed this morning? You may as well say they've decided against safety if they leave the house. Flying with a child in their lap is probably one of the safest things they can do, and it's reasonable they're more concerned about the far higher​higher probability event. That's basic risk analysis.

A US seat would resolve the BA issue but they can’t be used in the UK (to/from the airport) or EU so this is not really a practical option for most parents especially given the low risk associated with having a lap child. Would it not be more sensible for BA to permit the use of UK/EU approved seats that are designed for use on aircraft? It is very counter intuitive to have to purchase a US seat to secure a child on a UK carrier to a destination that may well not be in the US.

Trying to be objective about it, babies bounce a lot and have a much higher survival rate in crashes than adults. It seems right to me that the biggest risk might actually be the adult crushing the baby. Not sure where else you'd put the seat belt for a baby, if only there were compartments above your head where a baby could be stored. JOKE, don't do that.

These threads are like red rags to bulls...

I have to admit my recent trip was on AA (booked initially due to taking advantage of of the free main cabin extra seat selection as it was only a short hop over to new York). I was glad of their policy with car seats, we fitted the maxi Cosi rear facing and weren't troubled in any way by the crew except for comments about how beautiful the baby was.

We have a trip booked in first on BA in February when the lad will be 6 months and that seems like a big mistake in terms of bassinet positioning :confused:. At least the food and wine will be better than main cabin!

Their comment about the brace position is probably valid, but statistically you're more likely to experience turbulence than a crash. Good luck holding on to a toddler during turbulence.

The explanation given by the dismal scientists at the FAA is that they would really like to require all infants to be in a car seat in their own plane seat, but their statistics show that the increased cost to families in terms of additional tickets would encourage too many to them to chose to drive to their USA domestic destination rather than fly the whole family. And a baby in a parents' lap on a plane is several orders of magnitude safer on the trip than a baby in a car seat in a personal car/SUV/minivan.

So it's a trade off for greater safety throughout the transit process.

Latam Chille strange rule

Todllers can seat in Business Class only if they have separate sit and approved car/airplane seat!!!
so inflant belt not needed at all....but sepearate seat needed....in Economy no problem....

, good what I find out at Rio before boarding for connection to SCL where we have 3 seats in IPC
(2 Adults ,1 4 YearOld and 1 Year old toddler) in the end we got refund for tickets and extended our stay at Rio for 7 more days but we couldn't spend Easter 2016 on Easter Island :(

Which rules apply to a flight that crosses borders, e.g. UK -> SA in this instance and the reverse? Would it be that of the departing country or that of where the airline is registered (which might not always be obvious)?

Operating procedures are usually those of the country of registration.

Interesting. We just got back and had 2 internal flights with Comair. Both cases no belt for the little one. But to be honest I don't know what the right answer truly is re safety in the event of something going wrong, and in any case he wriggled like crazy when awake anyway (he's a very active 15m) so it's pretty much moot whether we have one or not (as it was on the LHR to / from JNB flights) so I didn't give it much thought, and just did as I was told.

BA are far from being the only airline that won't allow rear facing only car seats to be used on board, I was surprised to find out quite how many there are

Regulations apply from the country in which the aircraft is registered.

Many US states require a helmet.

Watching Air Emergency one night (don't remember the particular crash-but it was US), the FA advised a woman with lap child to assume the crash position and hold the child against the floor-those where the airlines guidelines. Mother lived. She never saw her child again. A crash is always unlikely, but I simply cannot see how its possible to secure a baby 8-30 pounds with your arms/hands in the event of an emergency. After that, we get a seat and put them in it.