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Originally Posted by ng1265
(Post 29095248)
from a newbie perspective, what would be the aviation-related benefits of staying with the ECAA membership post-brexit from an airline perspective?
1. No need to renegociate agreements 2. No uncertainty on the legal framework which could be implemented by the UK post-Brexit 3. ATC advantages? 4. All UK airlines have changed their operating practices, including engineering, pilot and CC ops, to match EASA rules. Effectively the CAA here is nothing more than an intermediary checking enforcement. The switch from UK to European regs originally took longer than we have before Brexit kicks in, so they will stay in any case, whether we are members or not. Because of this, UK membership of common aviation policy is almost certain. |
The duster has been deployed on this thread due to the risk that the topic would end up in the Omni territory because of OT political posts.
Please stick to the topic at hand and please do not stray into the Omni-territory in consideration towards other forum users. LTN Phobia Moderatoe: BA forum |
Originally Posted by LordBuckethead
(Post 29095859)
4. All UK airlines have changed their operating practices, including engineering, pilot and CC ops, to match EASA rules. Effectively the CAA here is nothing more than an intermediary checking enforcement. The switch from UK to European regs originally took longer than we have before Brexit kicks in, so they will stay in any case, whether we are members or not.
UK wants to remain in EU aviation safety agency Move will place industry under indirect jurisdiction of European Court of Justice The UK will ask for its aviation industry to be regulated by the EU after Brexit, in a move that will place it under the indirect jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, a supposed “red line” set by Theresa May. Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, told aviation industry representatives that the government wanted the UK to remain in the European Aviation Safety Agency, which is in charge of standards and safety checks across the continent. ... |
British airlines to lose fifth-freedom rights in the EU post-Brexit
Originally Posted by The Guardian
Member states have ruled out allowing British carriers the freedom to fly passengers and luggage between destinations on the continent post-Brexit, with UK carriers to be permitted only four of the nine “freedoms” to operate they currently enjoy. There are also plans in the negotiations on fisheries to link access to British waters for EU vessels with access to the European market for UK importers.
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Ouch.
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I'd wait and see. The Guardian is playing to a particular gallery here, and the UK is a significant market for the continental carriers so the most likely outcome is a fudge to the status quo.
As with any negotiation, there is briefing, disinformation, counter-briefing, and grandstanding in the reported exchanges. It's often best not to overthink these things. |
IAG has already taken steps to prepare for the potential loss of intra-EU flying flights as noted in the his thread.
Ultimately in the long term it would be a rather odd outcome for US airlines to be able to fly intra-EU (as they currently can, though not vice versa) while UK airlines cannot. |
Originally Posted by RG1X
(Post 29298731)
Ouch.
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 29298814)
Not sure this will have much impact. EasyJet are moving a lot of their flights to another 'entity' (EasyJet Europe), so this will get around the issue. I had a flight on EasyJet Europe a couple of weeks back MAN-AMS. The cabin crew looked strangely familiar :)
Easyjet may still be required to relinquish control of it's EU entity after Brexit and become the minority shareholder. The situation for IAG may become even more complex given the shareholding by Qatar. |
Originally Posted by Worcester
(Post 29298849)
That would not resolve the issue of ownership, where the EU law restricts ownership of an EU airline to 49% of shares and as I recall 55% of shares are listed on the London Stock exchange.
Easyjet may still be required to relinquish control of it's EU entity after Brexit and become the minority shareholder. The situation for IAG may become even more complex given the shareholding by Qatar. |
Originally Posted by hugolover
(Post 29299845)
Protectionist, anti-competitive & discriminatory policies. I thought only Daddy came out with such hate speech. A racist policy.
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Originally Posted by Worcester
(Post 29298849)
That would not resolve the issue of ownership, where the EU law restricts ownership of an EU airline to 49% of shares and as I recall 55% of shares are listed on the London Stock exchange.
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
(Post 29300487)
However, where the shares are traded doesn't affect who and where the owners of the shares are.
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It all very complicated, itsn't it? I don't think most of us realise just how intertwined the member states legislation have become. Clearly removing oneself from the EU is no easy task. Its taken nearly 2 years to achieve not very much. I really don't think that ownership rules are a massive problem, AF/KL and LH have long got round the ownership criteria, but they are both EU companies. LH managed to circumvent things with SWISS, but Virgin America had high issues due to the presence of Richard Branson on the board - he had to step down.
In terms of airlines with major bases in the UK easyJet - easyJet Europe and easyJet Swiss should mean the most routes are not effected. Ryanair - An Irish airline, still an EU airline. Ryanair have applied for a UK AOC. British Airways - No intra-EU flying, so as long as the BA holding company is structured appropriately within IAG, there shouldn't be problems with traffic rights. Essentially no-one has any idea how things will pan out. There will probably be some fudge at the 11th hour whereby all existing bilateral stand until such time as the UK government gets round to negotiating them. For the vast majority of cases, that is probably in both parties interest (UK and the non-EU country). |
I rather suspect Norwegian might go to court to ensure there is no fudge the EU end...
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