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BA missed connection. Only given new flight 48 hours. Refusing compensation!!!!!

BA missed connection. Only given new flight 48 hours. Refusing compensation!!!!!

Old Nov 16, 17, 3:44 am
  #1  
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Angry BA missed connection. Only given new flight 48 hours. Refusing compensation!!!!!

Hi there.

I flew BA NCL- TLV via LHR.
Unfortunately my flight took off half hour delay from NCL as the flight was coming in from London and was delayed there.
Since my flight left half hour late Newcastle because of an earlier delay at London i missed my connection.

Besides for this the next available flight for me was only 48 hours later from LHR.

I hereby would like clarity as BA with regards to EU compensation laws are claiming it was beyond their control that the first flight was delayed hence are not going to compensate me. Ba themselves advised me at check in by NCL that there was a dleay at london so i would be delayed. By olaw is this considered beyond there control for my flight from NCL?

Furthermore even should it be considered beyond their control am i still entitled to compensation by the EU law the fact they had no next available flights available for me until 48 hours later as all their flights were full.

Please could you clarify the law for me so I can move this forward.

Many thanks
Below is their response:

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Iíve checked the details of your journey for your claim for EU compensation. Your claimís been refused because BA1337 on 19 October 2017 was delayed because of operational circumstances outside of our control. Under EU legislation, Iím afraid weíre not liable for a compensation payment in this situation..
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abe123 is offline  
Old Nov 16, 17, 6:03 am
  #2  
 
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Welcome to FT!

First of all, I would have asked to be rebooked OAL (to another carrier) if the first BA flight only had availability 48 hours later. Waiting 48 hours to get to TLV (which have many and frequent connections to Europe) is not acceptable (but failing to rebook you OAL will not grant you any compensation under EU Reg. 261/04).

As for compensation for delay, EC Reg. 261/04 will apply and unless the delay of your NCL-LHR flight was caused by extraordinary circumstances you are due EUR 600 as compensation from BA. You need to ask why the incoming fligh was delayed (it is not sufficient for BA to state that the delay was caused by operational circumstances - you need to know which operational reasons BA is talking about). In other words: BA needs to provide a proper explanation why your NCL-LHR flight was delayed.

I trust that BA arranged for hotel and meals until your new flight 48 hours later; BA is obliged to do so under EC Reg. 261/04
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Old Nov 16, 17, 6:29 am
  #3  
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First, if the delay was due to "extraordinary circumstances" you are not due any compensation no matter how long the delay. If the delay was not an "extraordinary circumstance" you are due EUR 600 for any delay at your final ticketed destination, e.g. TLV, exceeding 4 hours. That amount will not change once the 4-hour threshold is met. You are also due a "duty of care" by BA and I trust that BA either flew you back to NCL or paid for your hotel & food for the time you were marooned at LON. If not, that is due no matter the reason for your delay.

"Operational circumstances" covers a broad array of reasons. You really need to determine what those were. As your flight was only delayed by 30 minutes out of NCL and we are presuming that the inbound aircraft was delayed by roughly that amount, there are a whole host of reasons. Something as simple as a wind shift could cause a 15-20 minute delay and that could cause a delay in the departure queue. I would push BA for details.

I am surprised that BA refused to rebook you on other routings. While there might not have been availability on the BA non-stop, BA flies from LHR to any number of European airports which have onward connections on other carriers with which BA interlines. Did you ask for those? It will not affect compensation, but I am surprised.

If you cannot get a good answer from BA, take a look at MCOL, pull up the Letter Before Action form, send it to BA and pursue BA for the EUR 600. It will be for BA to prove, not you to disprove that the circumstances were "extraordinary".

Finally, as a caution. If you are booking a connection which is so tight that a 30-minute delay causes a misconnect and the onward route has few frequencies, it makes sense to have looked at alternatives and to have those i n hand.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 11:59 am
  #4  
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I'm going to move this to our BA forum.

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Old Nov 16, 17, 12:04 pm
  #5  
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In short, ask BA the exact reason for the delay. "Operational Circumstances" is not a valid reason in itself.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 1:02 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by abe123 View Post
Hi there.
Firstly let me welcome you to Flyertalk and welcome you to the BA forum. And indeed as someone based in NCL extra greetings from me. Thanks for joining up with us and I hope we can help you with this and any other future plans.

There is a comprehensive thread on EC261 in the Dashboard. You don't need to read all of it, probably reading the first few posts and the last few posts will give you a good idea.

Now it's very disappointing that a relatively short delay at the NCL/LHR ends manage to delay you so much on your trip to Israel. I guess it was a fairly tight connection and one of the problems there is that if the delay is quite short it becomes very difficult to prove it wasn't extraordinary circumstances. LHR has 2 runways, runs at 98% capacity and even minor weather events lead to delays and missed connections. So consequently I think in a narrow perspective you are not going to get anywhere here. This would be different if BA operated empty seats to TLV during the 48 hour period, but I suspect that would be unlikely, the airline has a vested interest to get you to TLV as quick as possible.

Two points giving very small wriggle room: you have here relates to the 48 hour delay: if there really was no other way to get you to TLV, even on indirect routes, that is still a dead end. But if there was a seat on (e.g.) El Al then after 24 hours it is my view that BA needs to facilitate that. The regulator for this area has indicated this is also their view too, however to be clear, only a judge could rule on that. Moreover in practical terms you would probably have to buy that ticket from El Al and then go through an uncertain process to get the money back. If you did indeed just sit it out then I fear you won't get far.

Secondly Israeli law has a similar framework for flight delays. I'm not at all an expert on that, and my rudimentary knowledge of that area is that I doubt it will help since it is essentially based on EC261 in any case. But it may be worth further investigation.

BA should, nevertheless, have covered your hotel, travel, communications and food costs whilst in London against receipts. This is under the Right to Care legislation.

Hopefully next time you can plug in a longer connection at LHR, TLV services are often full particularly around festive periods and Shabbat.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 1:22 pm
  #7  
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With 2 777s, and no recent Chag (holy day), it's odd that BA didn't have an empty seat across a 48 hour period.

Fair play to BA for filling four aircraft, totalling in excess of 1100 seats I'd estimate.

M
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Old Nov 16, 17, 2:27 pm
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Abe123 apologies if this appears a silly question, but your trip from NCL to TLV was on one ticket, yes? If so, the above advice is sound and frankly it’s pretty poor of BA to suggest waiting 48 hours. But if you booked your NCL-LHR flight separately for any reason, the risk of getting to LHR on time for the TLV flight is entirely yours.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 3:11 pm
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I thought airlines could not use the excuse that a flight was delayed due to a delay in the inbound aircraft? Ie knock on effects.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 3:19 pm
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Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
I thought airlines could not use the excuse that a flight was delayed due to a delay in the inbound aircraft? Ie knock on effects.
If you miss a flight due to a missed connection, then BA does need to rebook on the next available service with available seats, but this isn't knock-on in the usual sense and BA aren't responsible if it is due to ATC or weather. A better example would be if the NCL service had been delayed by several hours due to bad weather in Rome or something affecting a previous service. When it come to 30 minutes at LHR the bar is so low that isn't giving much scope for passenger claims under EC261, not least because BA already pad about 15 minutes extra time on to the NCL schedule. It's not totally out of the question, we'd need more forensic detail on timings, but it doesn't look promising from the information so far provided.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 3:57 pm
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Quite OT but there was an interesting affair on today's BA164 (TLV-LHR), which BTW was packed to the last row (in all classes). Upon landing in LHR the CSM announced that there is a very large group of pax onboard the aircraft that needs to connect to BA247 (LHR-GRU) and since the connection is tight (less than 60 minutes) everyone was asked to remain in their seats and let the group exit first. All went well and it was clear BA did everything possible to get them to their flight on time. Hopefully they did and it appears that the flight departed T5B so better chances as the inbound docked in the same concourse.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 4:05 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
I thought airlines could not use the excuse that a flight was delayed due to a delay in the inbound aircraft? Ie knock on effects.
That is one of those extrapolations from a case in which a knock on delay was found not to be an extraordinary circumstance under the specific facts of that circumstance.

Here, the question is whether a 30-minute delay caused, for purposes of discussion only, by an extraordinary circumstance on the inbound would carry over. Even if BA had an extra crew and aircraft hanging around at this outstation, it is unlikely that it could have been repurposed, fueled, catered, and loaded with luggage & passengers in less than 30 minutes.
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Old Nov 16, 17, 4:31 pm
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I flew LHR NCL LHR on 20/21 October and the weather was poor. Was it storm Ophelia or something. Both flights had slot delays as Heathrow was on reduced arrival flows. One delay was small and one long and virtually everybody Heathrow bound missed their onward flights despite being told all flights were operating with delays. LH only had 10/15 min delays. I’m pretty sure if my memory serves me right that the weather wasn’t that great on 19 Oct so maybe that was the reason BA refused EU261
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Old Nov 17, 17, 1:44 am
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Originally Posted by KeaneJohn View Post
I flew LHR NCL LHR on 20/21 October and the weather was poor. Was it storm Ophelia or something. Both flights had slot delays as Heathrow was on reduced arrival flows. One delay was small and one long and virtually everybody Heathrow bound missed their onward flights despite being told all flights were operating with delays. LH only had 10/15 min delays. I’m pretty sure if my memory serves me right that the weather wasn’t that great on 19 Oct so maybe that was the reason BA refused EU261
Ophelia's main disruption was a few days earlier:
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Old Nov 18, 17, 1:58 pm
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Thanks everyone for their replies and especially BA for sendinga reply.

To cover a few queries this was one ticket with a 1 hour 10 minute stopover.
I have good reason to believe that BA are responsible as i checked in at NCL and they already told me then 6hat there is a delay.
I demanded that they promise me to make the connection or that i remain in my home town overnight and fly the next day to which they responded it is to early to promise but we willspeak again at boarding.
At boarding they promised me i would make the connection. Furthrmore they moved me foreward seat on the flight and advised all is going good and i will catch it.
5 minutes before landing they then came to me to advise me i would need to contact the BA desk as i have missed my connection.

So from my view if 2 and a half hours they knew there was a delay i can not believe this is a minor weather disruption.
Furthermore BA wrote operational circumstances which doenst indicate weather.

Thirdly they offered me a flight through Athens the next day with a stupid stop over there. But that would have only been awaiting list seat and i would have had to hang around the airport the whole next morning.
This was just totally unacceptable to me.

I then got toIsrael 48 hours late which absolutely messed up my schedule.

In short i am extremely annoyed and upset with the way BA dealt with this case.
Furthermore now they are just trying to squeeze out of the minimum compensation they should compensate me.
They arent offering any other compensation other than my expenses for the 48 hour. Not even some Avios points at the least!!!!!!!!!!!

If must be i will proceed with the aviator and court but would prefer not to go down this route.
A real shocking experience!!!!!!!!
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