Betting on the wrong horse?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:04 pm
#34
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I don't think so. It seems to me that there is a fairly reasonably good brand match between BA and M&S.
I do agree that the M&S food brand is certainly not aspirational these days. IMO, it is now one of those established, picture-postcard "British" brand that you would associate with a Telegraph-reading, Tory-voting, 50 to 60 year olds. You do not expect innovation or excitement from it but rather somewhat old-fashioned comfort, a kind of Chesterfield sofa ambience.
That fits the image that BA tends to project (rightly or wrongly) reasonably well, I would have thought. You would not associate BA with energy and innovation these days. It is a rather staid brand that wants to hang on to the appearance of discreet, comfortable moderate luxury but nothing too flashy. Whether the reality of the product actually lives up to that is debatable but that is, I would have thought, the image that BA tends to project.
Waitrose projects a more dynamic image than this although I feel that they too are starting to feel rather less aspirational than they were, say, 5 years ago.
I do agree that the M&S food brand is certainly not aspirational these days. IMO, it is now one of those established, picture-postcard "British" brand that you would associate with a Telegraph-reading, Tory-voting, 50 to 60 year olds. You do not expect innovation or excitement from it but rather somewhat old-fashioned comfort, a kind of Chesterfield sofa ambience.
That fits the image that BA tends to project (rightly or wrongly) reasonably well, I would have thought. You would not associate BA with energy and innovation these days. It is a rather staid brand that wants to hang on to the appearance of discreet, comfortable moderate luxury but nothing too flashy. Whether the reality of the product actually lives up to that is debatable but that is, I would have thought, the image that BA tends to project.
Waitrose projects a more dynamic image than this although I feel that they too are starting to feel rather less aspirational than they were, say, 5 years ago.
In principle I don't fundamentally agree with BoB re the not being offered a free tea/coffee biscuit etc. I don't think anyone I know anyhow regards M&S as inspirational or aspirational and it's just seen as a quality product, not the complete best but still good to very good. That is also where I see BA at, which overall generally as an airline and their FFP I class as good to very good, not excellent though.
Nov 13, 2017, 12:08 pm
#35
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I suspect you are right!
Nov 13, 2017, 12:19 pm
#36
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Nov 13, 2017, 12:48 pm
#37
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From my own observations at the till, i get the impression M&S is more exposed to Brexit inflation than other retailers probably due to the scale of product range and that M&S doesn't do loss lead pricing to the same extent as other retailers. The fact is I am now paying ~10% more today for ~25% less product weight than I was receiving prior to Thursday 23 June 2016 and that is impossible to ignore. So yes, I am now less inclined to grocery shop at M&S than I was 18 months ago.
Nov 13, 2017, 1:54 pm
#39
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I know a certain highly acclaimed and well respected Edinburgh based doctor (CBE) who shops at Aldi and Lidl.....he's especially fond of the booze section at Aldi.
Nov 13, 2017, 2:21 pm
#41
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In the States, Aldi is awesome for good quality German and Belgian chocolate at Hershey's prices.
As a tourist, I really like the grab and go area of M&S, even when we're staying in a place with a kitchen. Tesco is not bad for most things in my limited experience, but I was rather traumatized by a chicken nugget purchase there that smelled good but was essentially a McNugget as sold by the Golden Arches in 1993.
As a tourist, I really like the grab and go area of M&S, even when we're staying in a place with a kitchen. Tesco is not bad for most things in my limited experience, but I was rather traumatized by a chicken nugget purchase there that smelled good but was essentially a McNugget as sold by the Golden Arches in 1993.
Nov 13, 2017, 2:33 pm
#42
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In the States, Aldi is awesome for good quality German and Belgian chocolate at Hershey's prices.
As a tourist, I really like the grab and go area of M&S, even when we're staying in a place with a kitchen. Tesco is not bad for most things in my limited experience, but I was rather traumatized by a chicken nugget purchase there that smelled good but was essentially a McNugget as sold by the Golden Arches in 1993.
As a tourist, I really like the grab and go area of M&S, even when we're staying in a place with a kitchen. Tesco is not bad for most things in my limited experience, but I was rather traumatized by a chicken nugget purchase there that smelled good but was essentially a McNugget as sold by the Golden Arches in 1993.
The thing that really got me about Tesco though was an interview with the previous CEO where he admitted that, when Tesco Finest products are forced onto special offer by competitor action, they often reduce the quality to preserve their profit margin.
Nov 13, 2017, 2:43 pm
#43
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I was rather traumatized when my Mum dug out some Tesco Value chicken for my kids which said on the back "Produce of Thailand. This chicken may already have been frozen and defrosted once."
The thing that really got me about Tesco though was an interview with the previous CEO where he admitted that, when Tesco Finest products are forced onto special offer by competitor action, they often reduce the quality to preserve their profit margin.
The thing that really got me about Tesco though was an interview with the previous CEO where he admitted that, when Tesco Finest products are forced onto special offer by competitor action, they often reduce the quality to preserve their profit margin.
However, what do you expect Tesco to do when market pricing falls and having to compete? Of course they are removing value from the products to protect margins, and using fillers of questionable quality and preservatives to give them more flexibility. This is a reality of an industry that, particularly the retailers, are working with such fine margins.
It is rather like where the airline industry finds itself - consumers are only willing to pay the cheapest fares, hence airlines need to strip out cost (potentially reducing quality) in order to compete.
Nov 13, 2017, 2:57 pm
#44
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I would have thought Pret a manger a better partner for BA .....( if they wanted to be innnovative)!
Funnily enough when Tesco was going through the duldrums I wondered on this forum whether they were a suitable partner for avios and whether Waitrose or M&S would be a better pairing
I got replies saying they were too niche.... and not widespread enough across the country to be suitable for avios collection
Funnily enough when Tesco was going through the duldrums I wondered on this forum whether they were a suitable partner for avios and whether Waitrose or M&S would be a better pairing
I got replies saying they were too niche.... and not widespread enough across the country to be suitable for avios collection
Nov 13, 2017, 3:10 pm
#45
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Having worked in the fresh and frozen food and CPG industries for the majority of my career, I am possibly somewhat hardened to realities.
However, what do you expect Tesco to do when market pricing falls and having to compete? Of course they are removing value from the products to protect margins, and using fillers of questionable quality and preservatives to give them more flexibility. This is a reality of an industry that, particularly the retailers, are working with such fine margins.
It is rather like where the airline industry finds itself - consumers are only willing to pay the cheapest fares, hence airlines need to strip out cost (potentially reducing quality) in order to compete.
However, what do you expect Tesco to do when market pricing falls and having to compete? Of course they are removing value from the products to protect margins, and using fillers of questionable quality and preservatives to give them more flexibility. This is a reality of an industry that, particularly the retailers, are working with such fine margins.
It is rather like where the airline industry finds itself - consumers are only willing to pay the cheapest fares, hence airlines need to strip out cost (potentially reducing quality) in order to compete.
What we are saying is that Tesco Finest Bacon, sold at full price, is not necessarily the same product you get when Tesco Finest Bacon is being sold at 25% off - which seems fundamentally wrong to me.
(That said, as a man who worked for HSBC and had to sit through tedious compliance seminars at the same time as the Group was running A WHOLE SECRET BANK in Mexico to allow drug smugglers to launder their money, perhaps I should be more hardened too!)