710 77345

Have you not read it Dave? It will only take a few minutes, and will make things a lot clearer.

corporate-wage-slave

I can't see this going anywhere under EC261. The airline will be able to argue that the passenger agreed to travel to BOS instead, when the alternative would indeed have been IDB. Furthermore there is a requirement in EC261 to clear security requirements: this is deemed to have an onus on the passenger rather than the airline and looking at the points above BA may have an arguable case about the eTA number / whoever they consulted.

It's quite a bad set-up all round really since neither passenger nor airline can easily navigate through (sometimes) 800 words of TIMATIC with assorted nested IF and OR statements. In a way the USA system is better since the DHS effectively denies travel proactively, so if BA gets the green light from the DHS and a fairly limited number of document options are in order, then you are OK to travel.

It's fine for tourists using standard visas or ETA style documents, but when there are transit visas, work and residence permits involved a simple check becomes very difficult. Airlines get hefty fines if they get it wrong. A brief look around FT will show this is not unique to any airline or nation state.

:D!

US citizens are only granted entry into the UK if they have a residence permit, or can satisfy the immigration officer that they will be leaving the UK after their visit, so not sure why it would be surprising to be asked to show a residence permit or a return ticket, even if airlines usually don't care about seeing these.

Again, if you can't satisfy the airline agents that you have permission to stay in the UK long-term or will be leaving after your visit, then not sure why you would have grounds to get angry with an airline for denying boarding, even if they usually don't bother with it. The simple solution is to book a refundable flight if the airline insists.

Not sure how the rules for transiting YYZ are relevant when the post you were referring to does not involve Canada in any way. It describes a Taiwanese passport holder being wrongly identified as People's Republic of China passport holder when transiting LHR on the way to visiting the Schengen Area. Taiwanese passport holders don't need a UK visa or a Schengen visa to visit the UK or the Schengen area while PRC passport holders need visas for both.

Egoldstein

But BA is putting the threshhold beyond this as I mentioned upthread, as did another poster. They are not saying, oh your passport gives you entry to the country, they are saying, under this very specific category, which might not correspond to the exact sub-category that allows you entrance, show me additional proof you can enter. Then the interpretation and database appears faulty or incomplete.

As mentioned in my case for India, I had a physical copy of my e-Visa which they could confirm; thus the Indian government had given its okay for me to enter. To get the visa, I had to show reasonable evidence to the Indian authorities that I qualified for a single entry visa including giving information about tickets, invitation letter, access to resources, detailing previous visits, etc... but the BA agent decided that was insufficient and was not letting me board. This stalemate lasted for over 20 minutes, (when annoyingly the overhead bins become overfilled) at which point the supervisor overrode the desk agent.

henrus

They never suggested I didn't have permission to stay. They instead insisted that I need a visa for the UK and don't have one.

Again in my case, a refundable airfare should not be required as it's not a visa requirement (but I did have a flight out of the UK back to Australia if need be). I think the point is that BA is sloppy with Visa checks and needs to train staff a little better to ensure that silly little mistakes like mine don't become a bigger problem like the OP's.

navylad

I'm very confused here, Canadian's website states that you are required to have an ETA number, BA check and this is confirmed, it doesn't seam sloppy to me, seams to follow the rules by the letter.

It is much like when the FCO website says you need a minimum of 6 months on your passport, sometimes you will get entry with less than 6 months on your passport, but you shouldn't blame an official he subsequently sticks to the rules.

Naturally, if you think you know the rules better than the rule book, feel free to challenge them.

Perhaps the OP can enlighten us to how he ended up choosing to fly to BOS, whose suggestion was it and I hope he manages to get things sorted, please do report back how you get on.

KeaneJohn

I thought the op said BA had contacted a Canadian Immigration expert...it doesnt say that this was the Canadian authorities. Indeed if it was the Canadian authorities would you not think that given the op did have the correct requirements to enter this would have been confirmed ? I would haxxard a guess that BA spoke to a specialist helpdesk that they pay for who screwed up so I would be going fof IDB/EC261 and costs whichever is the greater.

DYKWIA

As has been explained a few times, and clearly stated on the Canadian Website....

navylad

Indeed, and it goes on to say that your ETA number is in your letter of introduction and, as I understand it, officially you may need this number to demonstrate you have an ETA, no? This is my understanding, and then if you were to ask a specialist, whether they were a Canadian official (which would seam more likely) or a Canadian specialist in BA, if this is what the rules state then irrespective of whether you have an ETA or not would seam irrelevant if you are asked for the number in order to demonstrate that you have an ETA.

https://www.canadavisa.com/electroni...n-eta-faq.html

Often1

While many are flinging around pseudo summaries of the Regulation, here is EC 261/2004's definition of "denied boarding" such as would mandate compensation. Note especially the bolded term "reasonable grounds."

The issue is not whether BA was correct. The issue is whether BA's decision was reasonable. Presuming the truth of BA's statement that it contacted Canadian authorities and was advised, perhaps incorrectly, it is hard to suggest that BA could have been unreasonable under the circumstances. Who better than Canadian authorities to call for a determination of admissibility to Canada?

‘denied boarding’ means a refusal to carry passengers on a
flight, although they have presented themselves for
boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2),
except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them
boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or
inadequate travel documentation.

Back many years ago, some carriers did permit some passengers to sign liability acceptance forms for minor document problems. But, those days are long past. The fines here would have been against BA, they are significant, and while BA certainly could have pursued OP for those fines had he been denied entry to Canada, we are not talking about minor speeding fines.

AC*SE

The ball drop here seems to be that the OP was under the belief that he didn't need an eTA, whereas the correct statement is that the OP already had an eTA, and could not produce the number when requested.

When the work permit was authorized, an eTA was automatically created. It has a number--it was written on the work permit approval. It was valid and subsisting. But the OP couldn't produce it.

BA received correct information--an eTA was absolutely required. And they likely received it from the ICO--a visa officer posted to the High Commission whose job it is to provide support to airlines operating services to Canada in cases of doubtful immigration documentation.

If, instead of pulling up the information page, the OP had made a status enquiry at https://onlineservices-servicesenlig...plicationQuery , this entire circumstance might have been avoided.

flamboyant 1

I fully agree but apparently this is complicated. I actually offered to sign a document that I would pay any deportation charges up to say an amount that covers a full fare flight back to the UK or one to the US. Would have even booked a refundable oneway to say Chicago from YYZ. Because transit needs no Visa or ETA in Toronto.

englisha

The call to the Canadian immigration is what sealed it. Who knows what was said in that conversation and if all the information was conveyed correctly.

We have problems all the time with my Ukrainian wife entering the UK as an EEA family member (without a visa) and although usually we manage to prove her rights in the airport, once we had a similar situation. Once the immigration officer has said no, even if they werent given the correct information, there's no convincing the airline otherwise.

Frustrating indeed, I hope you manage to resolve this satisfactorily with BA.

flamboyant 1

With a work permit you get an automatic ETA attached to your passport. You do not get an ETA number. And you cannot sign up for it separately, that is neither allowed nor possible. Airlines do check the work permit physical copy and passport at checkin sometimes. I always carry all my documents and permits with me and have never been denied.

I was given the option to stay in London or take the last flight possible that night to North America (to Boston) and then figure out my own way to Canada. Given I had to go to work, I had no option other than the latter. I was admitted no questions asked the next day (as reported earlier). AC did look at my passport and work permit at checkin in BOS.

If at all, BA staff should have denied me / checked in AMS at the point of origin and refunded the whole ticket, then I would have gone from there or FRA on AC. Not lose a day and night essentially. But then, in AMS they nearly messed up before on immigration issues.

The whole treatment was anything from Business Class / Gold member standard. Older people could not even stand that long.

flamboyant 1

You submit that work permit approval doc in exchange for the actual work permit when you arrive the first time with your work permit, which carries only one number top right and your identifier.

And no, I cannot sign up for a new ETA as others suggested, no possible with work permit or permanent resident application.