Reward Flight 'Dynamic Pricing' Discussion
Nov 28, 2017, 9:22 am
#31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: BA Blue, EK Blue, Best Western Diamond Select, Hilton Gold
Posts: 78
Has dynamic pricing started?
Looking at an F redemptions (LHR to YYZ and NYC to LHR) and each leg is listed at 68k Avios, when I am sure this was 80k just 2 weeks ago!
Is this possibly a 'trial' or soft launch of dynamic pricing for redemptions? I must add that I am not complaining though!
Is this possibly a 'trial' or soft launch of dynamic pricing for redemptions? I must add that I am not complaining though!
Nov 28, 2017, 9:28 am
#35
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,888
Both Toronto and NYC are in the same avios band.
A one way F reward to YYZ or NYC is 80k avios peak and 68k avios off-peak. This has been the avios needed when the rates were changed two years ago, so no change - so far!
A one way F reward to YYZ or NYC is 80k avios peak and 68k avios off-peak. This has been the avios needed when the rates were changed two years ago, so no change - so far!
Mar 13, 2018, 2:53 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver, ZSL Silver
Posts: 2,551
There were some rumours on the GGL enhancement thread, but no firm details. I guess it's a case of burn now if there's somewhere you want to go it works for you as you know the current rates, or wait and see. Not much else to do.
Interesting that there are a couple of Avios promotions right now - the European bonus, plus greater advertising of the Amex referrals and the increase in what you can earn from that. Maybe that's to soften the blow.
Interesting that there are a couple of Avios promotions right now - the European bonus, plus greater advertising of the Amex referrals and the increase in what you can earn from that. Maybe that's to soften the blow.
Mar 13, 2018, 3:56 am
#39
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: BA Gold, DL PM, , Hilton Diamond (from being in a bed), SPG Plat, MR Plat
Posts: 922
More than likely something similar in which Flying Blue announced yesterday. A base price for award tickets with no award chart and then it goes upwards only in relation to ticket price. It will get rid of any last minute arbitrage opportunities of high ticket price and low avios redemption. The amount of avios needed will track the price of the ticket. Unsure how this would work with non-IAG OW partners though. Would expect just higher standard awards.
Mar 13, 2018, 4:05 am
#40
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Programs: BA Gold (ex-GGL, maybe future Silver), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,197
I'd have thought that the whole point of the redemption model was
a. to generate revenue (loyalty, credit card spend, partner revenue) - which this takes away from by making avios less attractive to acquire; and
b. to manage demand (i.e., if I can fly F on tomorrow afternoon's LHR-LAX for avios, there are probably about four unsold seats in the F cabin and, while there's a chance that someone will come along and pay Ł12k for a return, there's virtually no chance that will be the same person who wants to burn a stack of avios. So the revenue maximising model allows for the plane to be leaving with empty seats, hence the revenue foregone by the airline is low.
Mar 13, 2018, 4:59 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
More than likely something similar in which Flying Blue announced yesterday. A base price for award tickets with no award chart and then it goes upwards only in relation to ticket price. It will get rid of any last minute arbitrage opportunities of high ticket price and low avios redemption. The amount of avios needed will track the price of the ticket. Unsure how this would work with non-IAG OW partners though. Would expect just higher standard awards.
* You can book at standard reward prices until standard availability has gone
* After that point, you can still book but with the current cash fare converted into miles at presumably 0.6 cents per mile or similar
No-one is worse off in that scenario, as long as 'standard' availability remains unchanged in terms of quantity. If BA allowed you to do 100% part pay with Avios it would be the same as BA already does (and what Virgin already does).
You don't see many toys being thrown out of prams over on the FB FT page.
Last edited by Raffles; Mar 13, 2018 at 5:08 am
Mar 25, 2018, 9:58 am
#42
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,736
I can share a bit more news, indirectly, about what is currently going on in this space.
There seems to be two phases, the first one amounts to tinkering:
- there will be more leeway given to agents for those who are just short of qualification, and other areas of flexibility. So at the moment there is the "two week rule" and that's more or less it in terms of flexibility. This is likely to be flexible and more dialogue involved, e.g. "can you keep me at Gold? I've got some CW flights coming up next month and the month after", and if the agent sees the evidence then Gold may be renewed even if well short. In some cases it will be due to BAEC members not being aware of parental leave options and therefore not applying, again that can lead to a flexible outcome. Perhaps more flexibility on household accounts and lounge access to family members (as we have seen already). Consistency isn't being seen as important here, good customer outcomes being the driver. I get the impression that now the Chief Exec has teenage children, who are UK citizens based in London, and who want to go places, he is seeing things in a more family focused way than some of his predecessors.
- more dramatically is allowing some sort of slider mechanism with Avios use, and across the board. Those who are in the Hilton programme will be a bit aware of this, but the pricing of Avios (not so much on the earning) seems to heading that direction, so long as it isn't seen as a negative process to the existing scheme - this is aimed as an improvement. So for example, paying for all fees with Avios (like Vueling), paying for seats or extra luggage using Avios. The part pay with Avios process (which is currently dreadful value for money but plenty of sentient FTers use it) is up for extension essentially. Alex Cruz quote: "It is a very tricky subject because we can't come out with a product that will be seen to be more punitive. It has to be more positive. It has to give you more flexibility or it won't work but no we haven't defined it yet." Outside FT I suspect the knowledge let alone appreciation of Part Pay is poorly understood and from my reading this is the biggest outcome. I am not reading any change to the 355 full redemption process. And I'm seeing no big news on changes to earning, just spending Avios.
Moreover.........
And when will this second stage happen? Not soon. Maybe end of this year, maybe next year, maybe mid next year. Why? Well as young KARFA and I agreed on yesterday: three cheers for BA's IT infrastructure! Long may it creak away.
There seems to be two phases, the first one amounts to tinkering:
- there will be more leeway given to agents for those who are just short of qualification, and other areas of flexibility. So at the moment there is the "two week rule" and that's more or less it in terms of flexibility. This is likely to be flexible and more dialogue involved, e.g. "can you keep me at Gold? I've got some CW flights coming up next month and the month after", and if the agent sees the evidence then Gold may be renewed even if well short. In some cases it will be due to BAEC members not being aware of parental leave options and therefore not applying, again that can lead to a flexible outcome. Perhaps more flexibility on household accounts and lounge access to family members (as we have seen already). Consistency isn't being seen as important here, good customer outcomes being the driver. I get the impression that now the Chief Exec has teenage children, who are UK citizens based in London, and who want to go places, he is seeing things in a more family focused way than some of his predecessors.
- more dramatically is allowing some sort of slider mechanism with Avios use, and across the board. Those who are in the Hilton programme will be a bit aware of this, but the pricing of Avios (not so much on the earning) seems to heading that direction, so long as it isn't seen as a negative process to the existing scheme - this is aimed as an improvement. So for example, paying for all fees with Avios (like Vueling), paying for seats or extra luggage using Avios. The part pay with Avios process (which is currently dreadful value for money but plenty of sentient FTers use it) is up for extension essentially. Alex Cruz quote: "It is a very tricky subject because we can't come out with a product that will be seen to be more punitive. It has to be more positive. It has to give you more flexibility or it won't work but no we haven't defined it yet." Outside FT I suspect the knowledge let alone appreciation of Part Pay is poorly understood and from my reading this is the biggest outcome. I am not reading any change to the 355 full redemption process. And I'm seeing no big news on changes to earning, just spending Avios.
Moreover.........
And when will this second stage happen? Not soon. Maybe end of this year, maybe next year, maybe mid next year. Why? Well as young KARFA and I agreed on yesterday: three cheers for BA's IT infrastructure! Long may it creak away.
Mar 25, 2018, 12:31 pm
#43
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: BA GGL/CCR/GFL
Posts: 103
I can share a bit more news, indirectly, about what is currently going on in this space.
There seems to be two phases, the first one amounts to tinkering:
- there will be more leeway given to agents for those who are just short of qualification, and other areas of flexibility. So at the moment there is the "two week rule" and that's more or less it in terms of flexibility. This is likely to be flexible and more dialogue involved, e.g. "can you keep me at Gold? I've got some CW flights coming up next month and the month after", and if the agent sees the evidence then Gold may be renewed even if well short. In some cases it will be due to BAEC members not being aware of parental leave options and therefore not applying, again that can lead to a flexible outcome. Perhaps more flexibility on household accounts and lounge access to family members (as we have seen already). Consistency isn't being seen as important here, good customer outcomes being the driver. I get the impression that now the Chief Exec has teenage children, who are UK citizens based in London, and who want to go places, he is seeing things in a more family focused way than some of his predecessors.
- more dramatically is allowing some sort of slider mechanism with Avios use, and across the board. Those who are in the Hilton programme will be a bit aware of this, but the pricing of Avios (not so much on the earning) seems to heading that direction, so long as it isn't seen as a negative process to the existing scheme - this is aimed as an improvement. So for example, paying for all fees with Avios (like Vueling), paying for seats or extra luggage using Avios. The part pay with Avios process (which is currently dreadful value for money but plenty of sentient FTers use it) is up for extension essentially. Alex Cruz quote: "It is a very tricky subject because we can't come out with a product that will be seen to be more punitive. It has to be more positive. It has to give you more flexibility or it won't work but no we haven't defined it yet." Outside FT I suspect the knowledge let alone appreciation of Part Pay is poorly understood and from my reading this is the biggest outcome. I am not reading any change to the 355 full redemption process. And I'm seeing no big news on changes to earning, just spending Avios.
Moreover.........
And when will this second stage happen? Not soon. Maybe end of this year, maybe next year, maybe mid next year. Why? Well as young KARFA and I agreed on yesterday: three cheers for BA's IT infrastructure! Long may it creak away.
There seems to be two phases, the first one amounts to tinkering:
- there will be more leeway given to agents for those who are just short of qualification, and other areas of flexibility. So at the moment there is the "two week rule" and that's more or less it in terms of flexibility. This is likely to be flexible and more dialogue involved, e.g. "can you keep me at Gold? I've got some CW flights coming up next month and the month after", and if the agent sees the evidence then Gold may be renewed even if well short. In some cases it will be due to BAEC members not being aware of parental leave options and therefore not applying, again that can lead to a flexible outcome. Perhaps more flexibility on household accounts and lounge access to family members (as we have seen already). Consistency isn't being seen as important here, good customer outcomes being the driver. I get the impression that now the Chief Exec has teenage children, who are UK citizens based in London, and who want to go places, he is seeing things in a more family focused way than some of his predecessors.
- more dramatically is allowing some sort of slider mechanism with Avios use, and across the board. Those who are in the Hilton programme will be a bit aware of this, but the pricing of Avios (not so much on the earning) seems to heading that direction, so long as it isn't seen as a negative process to the existing scheme - this is aimed as an improvement. So for example, paying for all fees with Avios (like Vueling), paying for seats or extra luggage using Avios. The part pay with Avios process (which is currently dreadful value for money but plenty of sentient FTers use it) is up for extension essentially. Alex Cruz quote: "It is a very tricky subject because we can't come out with a product that will be seen to be more punitive. It has to be more positive. It has to give you more flexibility or it won't work but no we haven't defined it yet." Outside FT I suspect the knowledge let alone appreciation of Part Pay is poorly understood and from my reading this is the biggest outcome. I am not reading any change to the 355 full redemption process. And I'm seeing no big news on changes to earning, just spending Avios.
Moreover.........
And when will this second stage happen? Not soon. Maybe end of this year, maybe next year, maybe mid next year. Why? Well as young KARFA and I agreed on yesterday: three cheers for BA's IT infrastructure! Long may it creak away.
Mar 25, 2018, 10:44 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Thanks for the insight @corporate-wage-slave
Would this imply that there aren't going to be any changes to tier point earning / status earning? Or just that there isn't any inside news on this yet?
Would this imply that there aren't going to be any changes to tier point earning / status earning? Or just that there isn't any inside news on this yet?